to think our children will not forgive us if we don't sort Brexit out

[HurricaneFloss]

DFiL voted Leave. He's not thick and he had his reasons but, to be frank, he's 80 and not going to have to live with the consequences long term. Especially, if the NHS don't manage to stockpile his multiple medications in the event of a No Deal.

AIBU to think we all need to kick up an almighty stink to ensure that our Government makes a deal that will protect our children's futures - even if that means remaining. Jacob Rees Mogg and his ERG buddies predict it could be 50 years for the UK to see the benefits of leaving the EU. That's too late for my DD.

Austerity has damaged enough lives, we can't let Brexit do more harm. It's no good shrugging and saying "Leave won". If this isn't sorted out there will be no winners.

mc professionals, with one of those brilliant careers that many MNers seem to have, can move jobs easily if their current employer shafts them

Most workers though, especially aged 40+ or with caring responsibilities, are very vulnerable to a ruthless unscrupulous employer
and find it very difficult to fight for justice as individuals

Trade unions can help, but their power to do so has been deliberately hamstrung by successive government legislation

Employers are profiting from the fall of unions; ordinary workers - not so much

Since June 2016:

• the chances of any favourable trade deal with the US have ended as Donald Trump was elected President
• the fear of Turkish membership ended with the Erdogan actions in response to the attempted army takeover
• the costs of leaving are greater than understood (£40bn to meet obligations)
• the House of Commons does not have a majority view on the form of Brexit anymore.

to name but four.

A vote on the final deal makes more sense than if you had argued for one the day after the referendum.

Funnily enough, the Works Councils in German, where the unions sit together with employers, haven't harmed German businesses

Blimey there's a shit ton of Tory hq and Russian boys around this afternoon

boys bots

And maybe I'm being thick, but isn't there a massive conflict between Theresa's assertion of the importance of no hard Irish border within any agreement and her apparent willingness to walk away with No Deal (would there be no hard border in this case then)?

FFS. Like pretty much all Remainers, I would dearly love to be proved wrong. I have 3 children. Do you really think I would want to see their future screwed up just so that I can say ‘I told you so’.
As for the insistence that Brexit threads should be shunted over to the ‘correct’ boards, half of the threads in AIBU don’t belong there. If someone posts ‘AIBU to ask what you think of this dress?’, there isn’t a pile on to tell the OP that they should be posting in Style & Beauty.
I would love to hear just one thing that Leavers think will be better after we leave instead of resorting to childish insults about Remainers and Remanics. That really is tedious and tends to give the impression that there is nothing to back up the ‘We won’ argument.

@SilverySurfer

If it bores you, you don't need to read this thread - or indeed any other thread on MN.

Hiding threads on the Brexit board does not attract the same attention as having them on AIBU - as the OP states, Brexit is too important to keep pushing it to one side.

It is interesting to see how many pro-Brexit posters have magically appeared as soon as the debate is more in the open. It is equally as interesting to see how many of these have refused to engage with the discussion, just resorting to insults and pasting the usual Brexit slogans.

isn't there a separate topic for this tedious, repetitive shit

Yes, but remainers complain that it’s too hidden.

I’d get used to threads like this though, it’s all we’ll get leading up to March next year.

To answer the OPs question, yes we do need to sort Brexit out; but isn't that what we (the UK and EU) are currently trying to do? The EU and UK are still negotiating how we do sort it out.

If you disagree say why with facts and a proper intelligent argument as you would any aibu.

The stick your head in the sand up shut up because you don't like seeing any fear is frankly scarier than Brexit itself.

Is this another kiss the Eu’s arse thread Where all is perfect and we get have wonderful lives within the Eu and that brexit voters are all knuckle dragging racists?

Until people stop insulting each other on how they voted you are never going to get a worthwhile discussion.

isn't there a separate topic for this tedious, repetitive shit

It isn’t compulsory to read every thread on mumsnet. Comments like this are unhelpful, but then so was voting leave so I shouldn’t expect any better.

5year
You might note that Australia trades with its nearest countries. It's even in a trading bloc with them.

I wonder what trading bloc our nearest countries are in...

The Brexit elite will help their own kids get richer, but certainly not the ordinary younger generation

Super-wealthy Brexiters, some who are coincidentally Tory donors, are betting on Brexit being a disaster for the UK
e.g.
Brexiteer Odey bets £500m AGAINST British businesses:
Rees-Mogg backer hopes to gain from ‘short’ stakes in shares he believes will fall

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/investing/article-5824697/Brexiteer-Odey-bets-500m-AGAINST-British-businesses.html

Hedge fund tycoon Crispin Odey
– who ... demanded Theresa May’s eviction from No 10 saying she couldn’t be trusted to carry Brexit through –
stands to make huge profits from the woes of the UK economy
....
His firm Odey Asset Management has taken out more than £500 million ‘short’ positions
– which are essentially a gamble that a share price will fall –
on some of Britain’s biggest firms, implying that he expects a poor performance from them.
…
Odey’s apparent lack of confidence in flagship British firms
stands in marked contrast to his fund’s investments in other countries, including France, Germany and the US,
where he is mainly backing shares to rise.

Today 15:41 BartholinsSister

The EU will be desperate to have an economic powerhouse such as the UK in their club. That's why they're trying to make it difficult for us to leave.

If Brexit is as huge a disaster as many think, the UK will no longer be an economic powerhouse. There's a fair chance it won't be the UK any more either.

So explain what exactly is wrong with the EU,how Brexit will improve things and why-with stone cold facts( not lies written on the side of a bus or in the Daily Wail).

I would love to hear just one thing that Leavers think will be better after we leave

Yeah, good luck with that. We're somehow supposed to put our faith in rainbow-shitting unicorns that will be galloping around freely in the post-EU landscape.

Please, please, please can any of the ardent Brexiteers set out some details of exactly how the life of the "ordinary person" (and I include myself in that - I'm not rich, I earn below national average salary, my DH is out of work (disabled), I live in one of the economically poorer regions of the country) be improved post-Brexit. If that can give due consideration to the current government's policies of cutting public services, welfare reform, defunding the NHS in real terms etc that would be even better. I don't want soundbites, I don't want sneering, I don't want wishful thinking, but I genuinely want to know what and how things will improve. If the predictions made by the likes of the IMF, Mark Carney, business experts etc can so easily be dismissed as Project Fear then there must be a clear, detailed and realistic basis for that dismissal that goes beyond "this isn't what I want to believe will happen so I'm going to dismiss it as Project Fear". So please can someone share that clear, detailed and realistic basis for rebuttal.

P3onyPenny

We’d have to join the back of the q behind Turkey and all the others who want to join the EU. Even if we pulled it off we wouldn’t be on the top table with a deal as good as we’ve got now

There is no queue. But no, we wouldn't get the opt-outs we have now.

Genuinely can’t understand why Brexiteers get so angsty about discussing Brexit.

Very odd behaviour. If they don’t want to engage, they don’t have to.

Rainingcatsanddogs, I also blame brexiteers for this mess, and I don’t understand why you don’t think we should.

Peony are you directing your question to any particular poster.? And btw BigChoc's Odey article was originally reported by the Wail on Sunday - I'm not Wail reader myself so I didn't read it.

Is this another kiss the Eu’s arse thread Where all is perfect and we get have wonderful lives within the Eu and that brexit voters are all knuckle dragging racists?

No - none of the pro-Remain posters who are trying to have a serious debate on this thread have used this language, about the EU or about leave voters.

Until people stop insulting each other on how they voted you are never going to get a worthwhile discussion

Agreed - but attempts to engage with those leavers who have been posting the usual insults have met with either more insults or stoney silence.

Leaving the EU might be a good idea.
If it had been planned for properly
UKIP have had 40 years to prepare for this.
Crashing out in 24 weeks, as seems likely, with the government having got voted through special powers to rule without votes, is not good.

From 29.3.19 we know that:
Car factories have closed
Planes can't fly
Eurostar won't run
Police leave has been cancelled
Troubles in Northern Ireland could re ignite
Carers and ill are scared about getting meds
Lorries will stack up
Supermarkets can only hold 3 days of food.

Terrible situation to inflict on any country's people.
But to inflict on our kids is criminal.

Exam time too.