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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think our children will not forgive us if we don't sort Brexit out

999 replies

HurricaneFloss · 20/09/2018 13:25

DFiL voted Leave. He's not thick and he had his reasons but, to be frank, he's 80 and not going to have to live with the consequences long term. Especially, if the NHS don't manage to stockpile his multiple medications in the event of a No Deal.

AIBU to think we all need to kick up an almighty stink to ensure that our Government makes a deal that will protect our children's futures - even if that means remaining. Jacob Rees Mogg and his ERG buddies predict it could be 50 years for the UK to see the benefits of leaving the EU. That's too late for my DD.

Austerity has damaged enough lives, we can't let Brexit do more harm. It's no good shrugging and saying "Leave won". If this isn't sorted out there will be no winners.

OP posts:
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EthelThePiratesDaughter · 20/09/2018 15:26

If you're just an ordinary person, who doesn't give a fuck about any of the above, and who just wants less immigration, less wage suppression, less competition for jobs, less pressure on the housing market, less pressure on health services, primary schools and infrastructure, then Brexit will not be a disaster

Don't give us this "ordinary person" shit.

You are doing a massive disservice to ordinary people by implying that they are all naive enough to believe that Brexit will bring these benefits.

We'd all like higher wages and cheaper houses and more school places and shorter NHS waiting lists.

It's pretty clear that Brexit isn't going to deliver any of those things, and you don't need a PhD to be able to work that out.

user1471448556 · 20/09/2018 15:27

Brexit is a disaster - the Leave campaigners made promises they could never keep. We owe it to our children to put massive pressure on the government to stop us hurtling towards the cliff edge - there are ONLY 6.5 months left - this is serious.
If Brexit goes ahead, companies and jobs will leave the UK and our poor kids won't even have the freedom to follow the jobs because they'll be stuck on Brexit island! It's not a positive step in any respect.
Write to your MP. Sign the petition for a People's Vote. March on 20th Oct. Write to your local paper.

HollowTalk · 20/09/2018 15:29

Great post, @Havanananana.

HirplesWithHaggis · 20/09/2018 15:30

BartholinsSister

Our children will vote to rejoin the EU if brexit doesn't work out.

Will the EU allow us to rejoin, especially if we stiff them on the divorce bill? It only takes one other country to veto, and Ireland for example wll be rightly pissed off at us.

RedToothBrush · 20/09/2018 15:30

No one thinks, how can person from estate in a shitty provisional town get to said farm out in the country to do said work.

Remembering they have three kids who need to go to school and they don't have the mobility to move closer to that farm work.

A single person from Poland who can drive a car and live in lodgings or seasonal accomodation.

Even if you remove the Polish person from the equation you still have a problem that no one is talking about and addressing. Indeed the solution is likely to simply be shipping in cheap labour from a different part of the world.

Also see, doctors, nurses and carers from the EU.

Brexit doesn't mean that the available labour we have in this country will be able to take up the slack in terms of vacancies that arise.

Underlying this are issues of training, housebuilding, family responsibilities, community planning and transport. All of which are just being ignored.

P3onyPenny · 20/09/2018 15:32

They will charge us a fortune to get back in.

ilovemylurcher · 20/09/2018 15:36

I emailed my leave supporting MP (remain constituency) in support of Justine Greening's proposal on a vote on the deal. Despite his claim to respond to constituents within two weeks, he couldn't be bothered to acknowledge my email at all.
Leave is a disaster waiting to happen.

BartholinsSister · 20/09/2018 15:41

The EU will be desperate to have an economic powerhouse such as the UK in their club. That's why they're trying to make it difficult for us to leave.

Havanananana · 20/09/2018 15:44

If you're just an ordinary person, who doesn't give a fuck about any of the above, and who just wants less immigration, less wage suppression, less competition for jobs, less pressure on the housing market, less pressure on health services, primary schools and infrastructure, then Brexit will not be a disaster

@scatterolight

You've clearly engaged with the topic, so you no doubt read yesterday's government reports that quite clearly stated that EU immigrants had not suppressed UK wages, that EU workers were net contributors to the UK economy (over £2,000 a year) and contributed more per head than UK workers and that immigration is needed if the UK is to continue to prosper.

You'll know that EU immigrants are far less likely to use the NHS, as they are younger, fitter and healthier than the general population.

You'll know that a health service that has 100,000 vacancies in the NHS and a similar number of vacancies in the general care sector (care homes etc) ill totally collapse if the thousands of EU workers go home.

You'll be aware that EU-immigration accounts for only a third of immigration into the UK. Two-thirds come from the rest of the world, who of course won't stop coming after Brexit.

You'll know that the housing crisis is partly driven by high demand in some regions and lack of jobs in others (the two are of course linked) along with 40 years of government neglect - the sale of Council houses, abolition of rent controls etc - and the influx of £billions of dubious foreign money into the UK to buy up rental property. Infrastructure and schools have been political footballs for decades and successive governments have chosen to spend time and energy criticising their predecessors rather then actually improving anything.

None of the issues that you list have their origin in EU membership - and leaving the EU will not solve them.

P3onyPenny · 20/09/2018 15:46

We’d have to join the back of the q behind Turkey and all the others who want to join the EU. Even if we pulled it off we wouldn’t be on the top table with a deal as good as we’ve got now.

frankiestein401 · 20/09/2018 15:49

yes there is a big world out there - and the bits that dont have a trade deal with the EU will negotiate one - not only will it be better than any deal they'd negotiate with the UK they'll prioritise negotiation with the EU over that with the UK .

P3onyPenny · 20/09/2018 15:49

With the banking sector shrinking surely our economy will too. Doubt very much we’ll be a powerhouse. The EU is making deals with other powerhouses. They don’t need us.

PCPlumsTruncheon · 20/09/2018 15:51

www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/poll-sensation-britain-will-be-an-anti-brexit-country-by-january-2019-1-5699935

In 3 months time, even if nobody changes their mind, the majority of the electorate will no longer be in favour of Brexit.
The Referendum was 27 months ago. Does the will of the people include people who have died since the vote?
My son is 18 and wasn’t old enough to vote.
A recent opinion poll found that 82 % of 18-24 year olds would vote to remain if there was another vote but they are the ones who will be stuck with this crock of shit the longest.
Even Farage is now admitting that many people will be worse off but it will be worth it because ‘freedom’.
Brexit has taken up most of Parliament’s time for over 2 years and has already cost a huge amount- setting up a new department and hiring hundreds of civil servants. Btw, I don’t see any real distinction between unelected civil servants and the unelected ‘Brussels bureaucrats’.
The most gobsmacking thing for me is how Boris Johnson, JRM, Farage et al have managed to convince people to vote for them to stick it to the ‘elite’.They ARE the fucking elite.
John Redwood Is advising his own clients to get their money out of the U.K.
Jacob Rees Mogg is already obscenely rich but wants a no deal Brexit so that he can add more money to his pile.
It’s the biggest con trick in history. They’re laughing at you.

Havanananana · 20/09/2018 15:56

That's why they're trying to make it difficult for us to leave

The EU is not making it difficult for the UK to leave. The UK could have left at any time after invoking Art 50. The 29th March date is the final cut-off date, but Theresa could leave tomorrow.

There would still be the issue of the EU/UK border in Ireland, the settling of old debts and the protection of the 5 million EU and UK citizens, plus their families, who might be on the wrong side of the border on Brexit day.

@BartholinsSister
I'll ask you the question - if Brexit is such a great idea, why didn't Cameron or May invoke Art 50 immediately, and why is she still arguing the toss with the EU when she's been telling everyone that 'Brexit means Brexit' and that the UK is prepared to walk away? Why hasn't Johnson deposed her and gone into battle with the EU, or is he just going to let her be the sacrificial virgin and take the blame, so that he can ride in on his white unicorn and claim that May got it all wrong but now he's here to save us?

Isitsixoclockalready · 20/09/2018 15:57

P3onyPenny - I agree - the point is that we already get an advantageous deal as part of our EU membership and if we did try and reapply, we would lose all of that.

rainingcatsanddog · 20/09/2018 15:58

The people that our children should be angry at are

  1. David Cameron for using this referendum for political reasons.
  2. David Cameron for a ridiculously vague referendum question.
  3. David Cameron for leading a shit poor Remain campaign.
  4. People who did not vote.
  5. People like Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg for not allowing any deals that aren't Hard Brexit
  6. Theresa May for invoking Article 50 so soon
10degreestostarboard · 20/09/2018 16:01

Havana

A fiver says you are Donald tusk

What a load of nonsense - did you make your own tin foil hat or buy one?

And as for the unions (ghost of frank - not sure what your point re Brexit is here) they needed bringing down a peg. The Marxist drain on the economy they were.

Mumsnet remainiacs need to grow up.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/09/2018 16:03

If Brexit happens, we must protect the younger generation and workers of all ages from what the architects of Brexit plan for those ordinary people whom a pp claimed would be better off.

Look abt our Brexit minister Raab's goals

In 2011 he authored for the rightwing CPS (Centre for Policy Studies) this masterplan after Brexit

"Escaping the Strait Jacket - Ten Regulatory Reforms to Create Jobs"

https://www.cps.org.uk/files/reports/original/111114155257-escapingthestraitjacket.pdf

i.e. cutting protections for ordinary workers

  1. Exclude start-ups and small businesses from regulations on minimum wage, flexible working requests, time off for training, pension enrollment etc
  1. No fault dismissal for underperforming employees,
i.e. USA-type hire-and-fire at any time during their employment, not just in the first 2 years, as now
  1. Tribunals to have more power to strike out claims (claims that Raab defines as trivial or spurious)

    1. Pre-vet tribunal claims (makes the process longer & more expensive for employees)

    2. Make employees go through more hoops before they can apply to tribunals

    3. Make it easier to push older staff into retirement

    4. Raise the ballot % required before strike action

    5. Reform TUPE, i.e. cut jobs - when a business is bought by another, remove the stipulation that employees are retained

  1. Abolish the Agency Workers Regulations 2010, i.e. remove the rights they gain after 12 weeks to the same rights - maternity rights, holiday time, flexibility etc - as employees
  1. Abolish the Working Time Regulations 1998, i.e. removed the (limited) protection against being forced to work over 48 hrs weekly
fanfan18 · 20/09/2018 16:06

I don't think the remainers will be happy until they can see a brexit related disaster just so they can say "nah nah nah nah nah we were right"

If you're all so worried, go to the supermarket now, fill your house with canned food and then lock the door. See ya next year.

SilverySurfer · 20/09/2018 16:07

What a surprise. Another anti-Brexit thread which I hope MNHQ moves to the Brexit Board (shame there's no dustbin on here) and where all the Remainers can moan and whine to each other to their hearts content and pretend they know exactly what will happen in the future.

Why don't we have a [boring] or [snoring] emote on here?

Excellent post 5Yearplan4000

PCPlumsTruncheon · 20/09/2018 16:07

Big don’t be contaminating the joy of Brexit with your pesky facts.

This is your glorious leader
www.google.co.uk/search?q=boris+johnson&client=safari&hl=en-gb&prmd=niv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj9zqX17MndAhWoJMAKHUtlDE8Q_AUIEigC&biw=375&bih=628#imgrc=g9byp6_UySwWiM:

P3onyPenny · 20/09/2018 16:10

Don't be so ridiculous and short sighted. You honestly don't think there will be any negative repercussions? Seriously.

Havanananana · 20/09/2018 16:12

@10degreestostarboard

If I were Donald Tusk, I'd still be in Salzburg scratching my head at last night's performance by May and wondering what I'd need to say to her so that she'd understand that Chequers is a no-go, it is the UK that is leaving the EU and therefore the UK that needs to resolve the issues that this causes, and how to tell her to stop sending Raab over to repeat the same unacceptable nonsense week after week.

Then I'd take a phone call from Munich to find out what Davis had been saying - but I'd be expecting the usual 'they need us more than we need them, and anyway, Fox has already sold the UK lock, stock and barrel to US corporations.'

Meanwhile, as you're convinced that Brexit is going to be great, you can take your own advice about growing up and spend five minutes on the forum explaining why.

DGRossetti · 20/09/2018 16:12

The EU will be desperate to have an economic powerhouse such as the UK in their club. That's why they're trying to make it difficult for us to leave.

Latest news appears to be they are holding the door open ...

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