to think our children will not forgive us if we don't sort Brexit out

[HurricaneFloss]

DFiL voted Leave. He's not thick and he had his reasons but, to be frank, he's 80 and not going to have to live with the consequences long term. Especially, if the NHS don't manage to stockpile his multiple medications in the event of a No Deal.

AIBU to think we all need to kick up an almighty stink to ensure that our Government makes a deal that will protect our children's futures - even if that means remaining. Jacob Rees Mogg and his ERG buddies predict it could be 50 years for the UK to see the benefits of leaving the EU. That's too late for my DD.

Austerity has damaged enough lives, we can't let Brexit do more harm. It's no good shrugging and saying "Leave won". If this isn't sorted out there will be no winners.

I don't support the DUP. And who's voting for them?

No, 10. I'm talking about Brexit. I've no idea what the fuck you're talking about, since you go "But what about X?" (being something entirely irrelevant) every time you have no argument.

Are you saying that you don’t understand the DUP’s stance on abortion? Did you miss Ireland’s vote on the eighth amendment?

I raise you the ira and the Brighton bombing

Are we really going to play gross inflammatory NI top trumps? Really? Are you that desparate for attention?

The fact that you are going there says an enormous amount, and reflect an extraordinary amount of ignorance, callousness and lack of moral compass.

I pity you.

Are you forgetting that DUP need votes by a proportion of NI?

That's like saying "TM does XYZ which is terrible " and blame her yet forget that the Tory party need votes to get into power in the first place

If we had a party in England who wanted to keep abortion illegal there is no way on earth I would ever vote for that party. So someone in NI is voting for them!

Redtoothbrush

The faux outrage directed at leavers on threads like this is shameful

You talk about my moral compass - I am not the one trying to undermine a free democratic vote

The DUP has about 36% of the vote in NI, yet are the ones blocking the abortion rights in NI that you are complaining about.

I would actually welcome a second referendum. Mainly because people would be voting on a more informed mindset.

If it stayed leave then hopefully remainers would respect that leaving is really what the majority want and if remain won then we would know if people only voted leave before because they didn't really know what it meant.

Either way we would know the true answer..

It's not "faux outrage".

It's very real outrage.

And I don't think there's anything very democratic about saying, "Vote leave! We can leave the EU but still have full access to the single market plus £350m a week for the NHS and no economic downsides!" and then two years later say, "We are leaving the EU in six months, we are stockpiling food and medicine, we won't have access to the single market, we might not even have flights in and out of the UK, but no, you definitely can't vote on the final deal because 26% of the population voted for leaving the EU in some form or other which means BREXIT MEANS BREXIT and Jacob Rees-Mogg is making a killing out of this".

All these jobs which will be freed up, the ones there will be “less competition for”, who will be filling them? If anyone knows where the farmers in Perthshire can find a whole bunch of people keen to take on seasonal fruit picking, please let them know. A whole lot of fruit was left to rot because they were 20% down on EU immigrants this year. Local people aren’t available in high enough numbers. When there is a shortage of fruit and fruit products will folk be happy with higher prices? Or willing to pay more because people will only do the job for a much higher wage?

So a good 3rd are pro illegal abortion. It's ok just blaming a party but people have to vote for that party.. that was the point. So a third of NI are anti abortion which is shocking.

*pro abortion being illegal

"Or willing to pay more because people will only do the job for a much higher wage?"

I have always said that people contradict themselves when they say they want a living wage yet want their good at bottom prices.

It's perfectly acceptable to expect people picking fruit to want a living wage but people need to understand that higher staff wage outgoings means price rises for goods and services. Not everyone is making huge profits so a big hike in the wage bill will mean that cost is passed on to consumers.

Point me to where I am trying to undermine the referendum result? And please do feel free to lecture me further on what constitutes democracy. I'm very interested to see how you describe democracy as a concept.

You see a democratic mandate only lasts for a finite time period - the very definition of democracy includes the importance of the electorate being free to change its mind if new information appears or there is a change in circumstances. The 'will of the people' never is a fixed immovable rigid thing but a fluid ever changing one.

Your assumptions about what I believe are just that.

As it goes I'm not sure remaining solves much, nor am I keen on another vote but I sure as hell know leaving is a disaster.

As I say we are very much into the realms of damage limitation with none of us having 'won' the referendum ultimately.

We all lost.

I have vague recollections of a rumour that's Johnson’s reaction to being told leave got the most votes...

ICouldBeSomebodyYouKnow what facts have come to life that the government wouldn’t of known about before referendum?

Well as it was 36% of a 65% turnout, it’s hardly overwhelming. And that was for the Westminster Seats, the DUP are weaker in the NI Assembly Seats.

Quite shocking that such a minority of the electorate can have such a draconian effect on people’s lives

Not read through the thread but YANBU op. It’s a nightmare. My biggest fear is Brexit could pave the way for a low tax, skeletal welfare state which will be awful for everyone except for the well off to rich. U

It just makes me sad to think of those poor women who don't have easy access to a safe, legal abortion in 2018. Quite shocking on all accounts but for me it's very sad.

The thing is, Theresa May has indicated that she is unwilling to help women in Northern Ireland access safe and legal abortion because she is reliant on the DUP nutters to push through her hard Brexit agenda.

Tbf may will do or say anything if it keeps her at no 10.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-short-film-euan-robinson-eu-theresa-may-peoples-vote-a8546786.html

David Davis himself said that a democracy that cannot change its mind ceases to be a democracy.

10 You’re welcome < ignores own advice to ignore troll/ bot/monumentally stupid person >

As a slight aside is there anything positive we can do?Before or after?

Also are there any up and coming pro Europe parties,liberal voters could support? I'm pretty sure even more Tory and Labour supporters are disgusted with their party's handling of Brexit than before and I for one will never trust the lib dems again.

A new party to support or a viable alternative is what I'm going to need when the shit hits the fan. More of the same on top is too depressing to even contemplate.

You talk about my moral compass - I am not the one trying to undermine a free democratic vote

Democracy doesn’t begin and end at the ballot box of a non-binding referendum.

To be honest you’re using all these words you clearly have no idea what they mean.