to think our children will not forgive us if we don't sort Brexit out

[HurricaneFloss]

DFiL voted Leave. He's not thick and he had his reasons but, to be frank, he's 80 and not going to have to live with the consequences long term. Especially, if the NHS don't manage to stockpile his multiple medications in the event of a No Deal.

AIBU to think we all need to kick up an almighty stink to ensure that our Government makes a deal that will protect our children's futures - even if that means remaining. Jacob Rees Mogg and his ERG buddies predict it could be 50 years for the UK to see the benefits of leaving the EU. That's too late for my DD.

Austerity has damaged enough lives, we can't let Brexit do more harm. It's no good shrugging and saying "Leave won". If this isn't sorted out there will be no winners.

Hate The UK CAA is regulated under EASA and is not recognised as an independent regulatory authority where agreements govern flying rights where the UK has those rights through EASA negotiated agreements - that is what the UK CAA has said in evidence to the UK Parliament.

10 degrees

What's a gilded cage?

Your like the grinch. In the not so distant future you'll find a heart inside a voting station and you'll curse me out and you'll tick remain

Change - maybe you should actually research it a bit more. There's a lot more to it than feeding "cow brains" to cows. Are you one of those people that truly believed that farmers were serving up cow brains to their cows? And that BSE caused nvCJD and also know all about the similarity between Grass Staggers and BSE symptons. And how entire herds would be fed the same diet but only one cow would get "BSE".

Course you do, you know all about it.

Which 'bingo' are you calling:
Scared of women
Low sperm western men's count
All the best mate.

But I am not European, I am British

Actually, according to the 1992 Maastricht Treaty, legally you are both.

Citizenship of the European Union is separate to, and in addition to, British Citizenship. At some point, if a no deal Brexit looks like becoming reality, there will be legal challenges from British citizens looking to retain their EU citizenship.

But I am not European, I am British

You are European though .

What would be wrong with being European?

Where the UK is party to legal agreements under an EU negotiated agreement on leaving the EU the UK will no longer have rights under said legal agreements. We might have negotiated, by now, new agreements bi-laterally, but we haven't. Falling out of interantional agreements will have consequences that can be determined now. We do not have to 'wait and see'.

JWIM - much as I dislike the MN Brexit thread demands for evidence and links - could you please provide a link for that please?

What would be wrong with being European
exactly.

How hard is it to understand? If we leave the EU in March we will have to renegotiate every agreement/treaty we have with every country in the EU. 27 of them. We will be a separate country. We can't do a bloc deal.

There are laws and regulations in place. So no the ICAO just can't do a quick deal. It will have to be negotiated, which might take months. Any mayhem won't be their problem. And they won't lift it for our convenience. Or for anyone else. It will be outside EU law. They might let EU citizens move freely, but UK ones? Nope. Get used to queueing.

Even without citizenship, we will always be European.

Guess that’s hard for some people to bear . Our closest neighbours, friends and allies are (or were, given how tiresome British exceptionalism is) not the Australians, Kiwis and Americans - but the French, Germans etc... It doesn’t fit in with the awful views of people like Jacob Rees-Mogg, but it is an incontrovertible fact. Thank God.

10 you say supranational trappings of a quasi state like the ecj

You can't have it both ways. The EU would be undemocratic if it did not have judicial oversight. The ECJ is essential to ensure constitutional accountability.

My earlier point was about Parliamentary responsibility not your political beliefs.

Like most Brexit supporters you demonstrate a lack of understanding of the structures of the EU and the U.K. parliament. You are happy to wave the terms around but unfortunately you have no clear idea what you are talking about.

Because, ultimately, we achieve that by surrendering our national autonomy

It’s the ultimate example of outsourcing. What price freedom?

Now who's being hysterical and melodramatic?

Please explain what freedom and autonomy we have lost. Given our right of veto, what has the EU forced us to do that we wouldn't have done anyway? We have always been a sovereign country.

And trade deals always imply some loss of “sovereignty”, for all parties involved. It is not a bad thing per se.

Any international deal implies losing 'sovereignty' in the way the term is used by Brexit supporters. As does NATO membership and the ECHR.

If Brexit happens we trade under WTO rules we would then be ceding 'sovereignty' to an entirely undemocratic body.

Hate No need, that is just how legal agreements work.

If it is the UK CAA evidence then google the CAA or search Hansard for the select committee verbatim reports.

Recluse we will never be European because we are just so different. Just because the U.K. is next to France and so on, it doesn't mean we are European.

If the U.K. was situated next to China, we wouldn't be Chinese. We would be what we are.

There is nothing wrong with Europeans or Chinese by the way but just because we are located near them doesn't mean we are them, we are us, and that's ok.

I guess what we need is a vote that asks both these Qs:

Q1. Would you rather Leave (on any terms) or Remain on existing terms?

Q2. If we do leave, which deal do you prefer (WTO or some other compromise that EU will accept)?

Those options are only way I can see another Referendum working.

CiderBrains

Britain is in Europe. Not next to, in. We make up part of the continent of Europe. We are European.

Recluse we will never be European because we are just so different. Just because the U.K. is next to France and so on, it doesn't mean we are European.

Speak for yourself.

I've always felt European and since Brexit I've felt embarrassed to be British.

I have far more in common with a likeminded Italian or German than I do with some knuckle-dragging, immigrant-hating, Daily Mail reading leave voter from Birmingham.

I believe the number of 'laws' or regulations that the UK has has to sign up to which it would have preferred not to amounts to about 5 in 40 years. We have been happy with the rest, not surprising considering our MEPs were party to the discussions before the item was taken to a vote. Seems pretty democratic to me.
There would have been less hassle with fishing rights if Farage had attended the EU properly.

Every important vote should be reversible
this one is the same

Hate - actually, we had cows growing up and I was horrified when with BSE I realised what was in the ‘meal’. I had heard the words ‘bone meal’ but not realised what it meant.

Anyway, food standards are a good thing

The U.K. has always been very different from traditional Europeans. We have half heartily taken to the metric system, we don't use Euros etc. Our attitudes and way of life is very different. We may be on the same continent but we are very different. There is no right or wrong either way but we are just different and that ok,

CiderBrains

European isn’t interchangeable with “next to”.