Arguing with friend over her DS

[Courtney555]

I've just had a real row with a good friend of mine who has a DS the same age as mine (10). Whilst we are good friends, we don't physically see each other very often due to her moving quite a distance away, but speak most days on the phone. We've bickered plenty of times, but never rowed like this.

We've since apologised as we said things in the heat of the moment, but I can tell it's definitely not cleared the air.

She and DS came round for dinner. Her child is more than overweight. He's not dangerously obese, but he's really big.

She's always said he's a fussy eater, so us three had beef wellington, new potatoes, and veg. I also did chips for just him, as she'd said its the only form of potatoes he eats. I wouldn't usually do this, but she'd made quite a big deal about it yesterday, so I assured her that I'd have some ready, in a "it's just accommodating a food request" sort of way, like I would for someone with an intolerance or allergy.

Today, he left the meat and veg untouched. Virtually inhaled the chips and asked for more chips because he was hungry. I said sorry, there are no more, but there's beef, potatoes and veg. He replied "No, I don't like it." And then complained to his mum that he was still hungry. She told him not to be rude, but then followed up with, I'll get you something at home.

They went out to play, we were watching them from the window, she turns to me and says, "What do I do? He's so fat."

I asked her what he ate, and she said only burgers, chips, nuggets, beans and spaghetti hoops. Essentially freezer food. Refused all vegetables. Refused all fruit.

I said, unless he has a medical issue with certain food types, she needed to toughen up and give him a healthy diet. Children might genuinely hate a couple of vegetables, but to refuse all of them was omitting so many vital nutrients.

She then got uber defensive and said if was that easy, that's what she would do.

I replied, yes, he might protest for the first couple of nights, but he'd soon get used to the idea that he can't tantrum his way to burgers every night. If he can eat fried chipped potatoes then he can eat them boiled. If he can eat ground up beef as burgers, he can eat the beef in a wellington.

I then suggested, she should retract her offer to make him junk food later, and to tell him his only meal for this evening was the dinner on the table that he'd left, I'd happily reheat it for him, and if he refused, to stick to her guns when they got home.

She basically snorted at me, as if it was patronising and ridiculous to even try, so I said, "OK, but then don't call him fat, don't ask what to do about him being fat, you're the adult in charge of his food, you're making him fat!!!"

"No. I'm. not." Was the aggressive reply.

We then argued along those two sentiments for about five minutes, then she left with her DS.

What do I do. Should I be apologising further? Should she?

We're so close, so we do push others buttons, and speak very frankly with each other, which usually is great, but this is not good.

We're going to have to talk it out and address it. It can't just hang in the air unspoken. I don't know where to start. I thought I offered a fairly standard solution, but her reaction said otherwise. Was it a silly solution? What else do you suggest?

Sorry its so long. Trying not to drip feed.

I say let him have a burger and chips for tea but an age appropriate portion. And give him what he likes at other meal times. But if he’s still hungry after or wants to snack in between meals it’s veg sticks or the fruit bowl.
I would phrase it as that is what everyone in the family is having for snacks now to be healthier rather than he needs to diet due to his weight issue.
I bet he will try some fruit if he actually starts to feel the sensation of hunger.
No doubt he will tantrum but I would let him tantrum. She’s not going to be starving him - just not allowing him to overeat.

Another thing that would help is exercise. Can you investigate some form of exercise you could take both your child and hers to eg swimming, or to join a football club or rugby club or??? , and then follow up with tea at yours afterwards with your rules. It's a LOT harder for a child to refuse to eat the same as another child especially when they're starving hungry after exercise. I always remember one child's mum being staggered that she'd eaten meatballs in tomato sauce (home made with onions, garlic) and spaghetti at mine, because 'she'd never try anything new like that'. Said child had not said anything to me about never having eaten meatballs before just tucked in with the rest of them (in mitigation they'd been playing outside for about 4 hours so must have ben starving)

And definitely exercise. Exercise that doesn’t seem like exercise might help.
My kids will happily bounce for a couple of hours in the trampoline park while they’d complain if I suggested going for a walk for half that time! So doing something like that once a week would help.
I’m not sure how much actual swimming would get done swimming with a friend. My kids just mainly splash about despite being strong swimmers so it might not be the best in terms of losing weight.

I was never pandered to as a child and im fussy (undiagnosed dyspraxia at the time) if i didnt eat what was put in front of me i would go hungry (id always eat a bit so not starving- just generally didn't finish)

I really want beef wellington now☹

Ariela, I've had that too. A different friend of DS came round to watch films. We went to the supermarket first, and they picked popcorn, those trays with the salami, parma ham, and olives in, and a watermelon (which I'm sure neither wanted, it was just, oh, yes, we need one of those massive green balls )

When the friends mum picked him up, she was aghast that he'd eaten olives. He'd spat out salami when she tried to give it to him, and again "won't eat any fruit"

I think this is why I've got little room to indulge the "he won't eat" brigade, when it's not a deeper issue than the kids revelling in his parents allowing him to dictate his meals. Clearly he doesn't spit out salami, he's polished the lot off. He does eat fruit. They've done nearly half a watermelon between them.

So when she says, "he won't" what she actually means is "He clearly will, when he knows he won't get away with it, and now, as one adult to another I'm going to attempt to make excuses why it's not me letting him get away with it"

Softly softly and tiny tastes would be my approach

So a burger with home made chips and some interesting veg on the side.

It’s all served family style and he can have a tiny taste of the veg. Literally 2 little mouse bites. Cut it up very small.
She eats the same as him and with him. They introduce lots of new things slowly and with low expectations.

Draw up a meal plan, go shopping together. Cook together. Talk to him about nutrition and speak to the school. I would ask the teacher for her advice- what DOES he eat at school- dinners or a pack up?

Burger should be good quality- maybe homemade and slightly thinner than usual? Home made chips with some nice seasoning.

What about a chicken kebab home made of course? What about eating out to try new things??

I’m trying to think of a decent family cookbook that they could go and buy and look through together so he has some autonomy in the process.

My ds now likes lots of foods, but used to be quite limited. We eat a lot of “world food” as he dislikes as do I the British staples of things like a roast, cottage pie, hot pots

Time and patience. It’s a marathon not a sprint!

Hidden vege pasta so cook a regular tomatoes suace with onions, carrots, garlic, herbs and then blitz it to buggery.

Vege burgers?

Home made fish fingers and chicken fingers?

Thinking about it I would go back and get the Annabel Karmel weaning book. So many lovely meals that are blitzed and full of goodies that aren’t super strong in flavour?

My kids will not eat plain boiled veg. But they love a stir fry, a tagine, a rissoto, a rice bowl.

Haven't read all the posts but did read your update.

Could you get together and regularly cook? With the kids doing the majority of it? Make it like a Come Dine With Me sort of event. Get him trying new things but maybe soup for starters (lots of hidden veg) and then homemade burgers and wedges (slimming world style)?

There are loads and loads of slimming world recipes and fakeaway recipes that he might like but will be much less calorific. Make food fun and don't bang on about how it's a "healthier version" at first until he's eaten it several times and likes it. Just call it a burger if it's a burger

My dd is also 10. This is a fight your friend needed to have years ago. It’s going to be tons more difficult now. I’m not sure how to tackle this.

You said he will get angry and throw the food away. That sounds quite out of control for a 10 yo tbh. I’d be very upset if my dd did this and if she did, there would be consequences. This is pretty aggressive and he will soon be bigger and stronger than her. I’m therefore wondering if your friend has given her ds too much control in over his live at a too young age - I mean historically. If she has, it will have been scary and food may be his way of coping and keeping control. It’s just this is sounding behavioural rather than avoidant / safe food territory.

If this is the case, she’s going to have to do a fair amount of work prior to even thinking about changing food habits. You say she’s busy and I assume therefore she doesn’t have much time on her hands to research and learn. I’d advise working with a child psychologist to get on top of things if your friend can afford to see someone.

@op you sound lovely..honestly. People are often great at crittersizing and leaving you to it. Youresticking your neck out to help.
am no food expert and have a nil-by-mouth t time horror.well i did have,but we're moving slowly on from it.so i'll give you what ive got to see if any help.
guessing friend eats different mean from ds? that might be where to start. Eat together-preferably at at table. and cos im the worst witch insist on help in kitchen.even if its just setting table.or doing dishesAs previously it was a mum controlled area.gave him an apron and explained that is danger zone.if dont know ask and no i wont put music off.
i started by going back to three courses. watermelon /fruit/or soup(homemade)garlic bread.my fusspot would eat 3 dry loaves( so making four slices controls that)
main course = find a non chips carb.mine physically heaves a boiled or mash potato-gagging puts me off food ..so rice or pasta.is good. if bolognese i would put the pasta in bowl then give a small bowl with bol.wee one would ignore it.then he dipped a shell in and liked the sauce.but not the meat or bits..wont even try them..so i would sieve and get him eat the sauce n pasta...now i beld the lot..he hasnt noticed its thicker sauce as i put it on not serve seperate...same with curry..etc...its a faff but works for us
pudding is fruit,occasionally ice cream.one scoop in wafer cone.,yoghurt
its little steps at a time. my ds is a big lad-but not a grain of fat on him.he can ride a bike up high hills without gears but is not very sporty so i resorteed to www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CHILDRENS-KIDS-FITNESS-EXERCISER-ROWING-MACHINE-PLAY-FITNESS-GYM-EQUIPMENT/371808160724?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20160323102634%26meid%3Dc41dbd008d394578adda1fb3bd7e8f70%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D361847212639%26itm%3D371808160724&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1
9age range may be off scale if boys 10 .its great.he does ten mins before bath time/while tv on usually.

had to stop him doing dishes as his exema is not wash up liquid friendly and is allergic to rubber gloves(twattery)hope it helps.

OP, you’re a really good friend and it’s clear this problem is way bigger than food. The fact he’ll barge past your friend and slam food in the bin doesn’t bode well for the future and any partner he has in life. I think you have to be prepared his eating habits and trying to rectify them will more than likely open Pandora’s box when it comes to dynamics between him and his mum. For his sake though thd lid can’t be put back on the box and I think you’re all in for a rough time of it.

Opening the Pandoras box, I think so too.

It's the disrespect behind the way he acts at meal time. And it's every hard to say, "Well, it's because you've allowed him to disrespect you."

If DS shoved past me and binned his food then demanded a burger, he'd be in for an interesting evening indeed!

It's really hard not to be blamey, because she's made this rod for her back, but it doesn't help anyone going forward.

There have been some really good suggestions on this thread. Thank you all. I guess we start with some of those, and persevere.

You sound like a lovely friend.

What does usually work but can take a long time but it’s definitely worth it as it helps to build a positive relationship with food and avoid lifelong food issues which usually start at a young age.

Get her to put everything out in the middle of the table and everyone helps themselves. Make sure there is always at least one thing she knows he likes. (To start with though, do a few things he likes).

Everyone just helps themselves on their own plates. No one comments on their own food or anyone else’s food. No trying to persuade him to try anything, just have a taste, eat a tiny bit, he might like it if he tries it, he’s had it before and liked it, etc. Literally don’t mention it. Talk about their day, other things.

If he does (eventually) decide to try something new, don’t comment on it. No praise for trying it,etc. If he brings it up, just be matter of fact about it.

Praise can be in the form of ‘thank you for sorting nicely at the table, thank you for helping me to lay/clear the table’ but no praise around the actual food/eating.

Options obviously need to be as healthy as he will eat and be introduced gradually, homemade burger, homemade chips, sweet potato chips.

Snacks in the house obviously need to be limited to healthy options.

Get him involved in cooking/preparing food but in a non obvious way, so an excuse to bake scones/bread rolls or something for a friend (something appealing to him but not too unhealthy) and see if he will help but again no mention of him eating/trying ‘ooooh don’t they look tasty’ etc.

Or an excuse to get him to put the meal out/take over some prep, something like a pretend emergency phonecall and could he just do ‘xyz’.

Often the food can be anxiety/control related and by removing all pressure can lead him to start trying new things (it could take years of doing this though, it’s really not a quick fix) and hopefully lead him to stop relating eating with stress/anxiety.

So from your OP, saying ‘there’s no more chips, there is beef potatoes and veg’ you would just say ‘there are no more chips’ and leave it at that. He can see for himself what’s on the table and by not pointing it out to him has a better chance of him asking for some potatoes as the confrontation/pressure is off. If that sort of makes sense!