Arguing with friend over her DS

[Courtney555]

I've just had a real row with a good friend of mine who has a DS the same age as mine (10). Whilst we are good friends, we don't physically see each other very often due to her moving quite a distance away, but speak most days on the phone. We've bickered plenty of times, but never rowed like this.

We've since apologised as we said things in the heat of the moment, but I can tell it's definitely not cleared the air.

She and DS came round for dinner. Her child is more than overweight. He's not dangerously obese, but he's really big.

She's always said he's a fussy eater, so us three had beef wellington, new potatoes, and veg. I also did chips for just him, as she'd said its the only form of potatoes he eats. I wouldn't usually do this, but she'd made quite a big deal about it yesterday, so I assured her that I'd have some ready, in a "it's just accommodating a food request" sort of way, like I would for someone with an intolerance or allergy.

Today, he left the meat and veg untouched. Virtually inhaled the chips and asked for more chips because he was hungry. I said sorry, there are no more, but there's beef, potatoes and veg. He replied "No, I don't like it." And then complained to his mum that he was still hungry. She told him not to be rude, but then followed up with, I'll get you something at home.

They went out to play, we were watching them from the window, she turns to me and says, "What do I do? He's so fat."

I asked her what he ate, and she said only burgers, chips, nuggets, beans and spaghetti hoops. Essentially freezer food. Refused all vegetables. Refused all fruit.

I said, unless he has a medical issue with certain food types, she needed to toughen up and give him a healthy diet. Children might genuinely hate a couple of vegetables, but to refuse all of them was omitting so many vital nutrients.

She then got uber defensive and said if was that easy, that's what she would do.

I replied, yes, he might protest for the first couple of nights, but he'd soon get used to the idea that he can't tantrum his way to burgers every night. If he can eat fried chipped potatoes then he can eat them boiled. If he can eat ground up beef as burgers, he can eat the beef in a wellington.

I then suggested, she should retract her offer to make him junk food later, and to tell him his only meal for this evening was the dinner on the table that he'd left, I'd happily reheat it for him, and if he refused, to stick to her guns when they got home.

She basically snorted at me, as if it was patronising and ridiculous to even try, so I said, "OK, but then don't call him fat, don't ask what to do about him being fat, you're the adult in charge of his food, you're making him fat!!!"

"No. I'm. not." Was the aggressive reply.

We then argued along those two sentiments for about five minutes, then she left with her DS.

What do I do. Should I be apologising further? Should she?

We're so close, so we do push others buttons, and speak very frankly with each other, which usually is great, but this is not good.

We're going to have to talk it out and address it. It can't just hang in the air unspoken. I don't know where to start. I thought I offered a fairly standard solution, but her reaction said otherwise. Was it a silly solution? What else do you suggest?

Sorry its so long. Trying not to drip feed.

I ALSO AGREE WITH ZZZZZ

I can just imagine the complete joy and gratitude with which the other mum will receive benevolent OP's hidden-veg-in-burger recipes, because if her son is fat then she must be waaaay too stupid to google crap like that herself.

I think you just jumped two footed into a great big trap that was never going to end well for either of you.

Apologise to your friend. Suggest her son is seen by a professional to help with his weight. And keep out of his fussy eating and weight. Leave that for his mum to deal with.

My DH comes from a family of fussy eaters. Trust me, a child will let themselves starve if they don't want to eat something.

Scurriloussquirrel

Ah, I see you're one of those people who'd prefer to be right than be a friend. Good luck with that.

OP IS trying to be a friend. Her friend asked her for advice and she gave it to her. What should she have said? Never mind dear he’s fine, just carry on feeding him junk food, don’t upset the poor little darling? Sometimes the truth hurts. It’s much better to be honest with a friend than to gloss over something which is clearly a serious problem.

OP of course you’re not being condescending, you’re just trying to give the help you’ve been asked for. That’s what being a friend is about.

Elephant14

OP’s friend asked for help. Should OP have said “don’t be stupid, google it”?

I think it boils down to, if a child is hungry enough, they will eat. It's basic human survival. It will probably be a living nightmare for the first 48hrs, but learning that no amount of tantrums will bring on junk food, so you eat the spag bol, or starve... He'll eat the spag bol. Again, these are only my personal thoughts.

And your thoughts are wrong. If they really don't like a food ( and comparing chips to new potatoes is ridiculous. I wouldn't touch new potatoes till I was an adult because I hated the texture. And even now they have to be soft and covered in butter) they will not eat it.

If my choice was cauliflower or starve I would be near death's door before I ate it as the smell and texture makes me feel sick (and if I ate it, I would be)

I'm not saying he doesn't need to be educated and led to a proper diet but it really isn't that simple.

@nanny

If it was just new potatoes and cauliflower, and maybe a couple of other things too, it would make more sense that it's a genuine dislike. I eat everything. But no liquorice. Or celery. Bleurgh. DS will eat cold prawns, but not hot cooked prawns. That's cool, that's a genuine dislike, or a nod towards my inability to make paella.

He point blank refuses any vegetables. That's every single kind of vegetable. Those he hasn't even tried. Those that he doesn't know it's a vegetable, just that it's not burger and chips.

He can't possibly know that he doesn't like the taste or texture of a foodstuff if he's never ever put it in his mouth. Actually impossible. So his refusal on the basis that "I don't like it" is total fabrication.

That's the bit I have difficulty sympathising with. She's pandering to a child's fabrication about why he won't eat anything but burgers and chips. Then rewarding the fabrication with burger and chips.

@laliella thank you for injecting some common sense

OP’s friend asked for help. Should OP have said “don’t be stupid, google it”?

Lalliella May as well have gone, the effect has been the same

I think its very telling OP that you think Laliella is dishing up common sense here. No wonder you think you've got the moral high ground!

One thing she could try if she thinks it might work is to offer him a piece of fruit or raw veg when he comes out of school hungry, and not have anything else on offer. My child would eat anything after school, she's always starving at that time! She should start with his favourite/least unfavourite fruit or veg, and then if she wants to vary it once he's used to that she could try it. Then that would at least be one of his five a day, and possibly one less packet of crisps...

To the posters telling the OP (who I think is absolutely right) she's being patronising: her friend asked for her help and said she didn't know what to do! I don't see how offering potential solutions to a problem that someone clearly isn't able to solve is patronising.
Also agree, when kids are hungry they will eat.

In your friends situation I’d serve him appropriate sized portions of the healthiest food he will eat for meals and snacks would have to be fruit or veg. If he refused the snacks he wouldn’t starve and dropping a bit of weight wouldn’t be an issue by the sound of it. Only making fruit or veg available between meals would discourage boredom snacking and might encourage him to try new things too.
I don’t think you were u btw. You didn’t give unsolicited advice - she asked for it.

@bimkom I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way but I actually think framing it as a weight issue could set him up for other problems. He's quite young for those sort of hang ups. I would frame it more positively: it's not good to eat the same foods all the time, a varied diet with lots of fruit and veg is healthy, and discussing the benefits of exercise without mentioning weight loss (strength, fitness, etc).

I’m a mum who has always put her shoulder to the wheel, when I’ve identified a problem with my kid that requires a concentrated period of retraining.

Yes, it’s often a BIG faff. Put them back in their bed 37 times every night until it sticks- meanwhile missing out on my dinner, down time, having to curb my temper, hating their angst, etc.

Or addressing bad table manners by sitting with them, endlessly repeating the same things in a calm tone, figuring out the right mix of praise, distraction, consequences. Until it takes hold.

It’s uncomfortable, boring, stressful, crazy-making. Welcome to Parenting. I mean, if you put the effort in, the rewards with kids are huge. They are set up for life. Decent, healthy, non-entitled adults.

I’m still gobsmacked when I see parents basically admitting they can’t be bothered addressing behaviours that will clearly hold their kid back in life. Basically because they’re lazy? Because a concerted effort for few days or weeks is just so unreasonable? I swear they sound irritated that they should have to actually parent, as if by now our culture should have found a way to outsource it, like we can the cleaning of our gutters.

Your friend has thrown up her hands way too early. My guess is that if she’s reached her (low) limit of effort with the person she loves most in the world, it’s unlikely she’ll put much effort into her relationship with you. Prepare for being put in her ‘too hard basket’ as soon as you challenge her.

Skittlesandbeer

Gosh, skittles, that's really harsh.

I have a friend whose child slept properly maybe 3 times during the first 6 years of her life. I know she tried absolutely everything to get her to sleep, but nothing worked. She's a bit better now, but with a lot of kids it's just a case of doing what you can to get through this phase.

One of the strictest mums I know has a son who's overweight. I know she's not lazy. I know she tries really hard with him.

Ah, the trials and tribulations of modern society, where we have unlimited choice.

I wonder what they do in poorer countries where choice is limited and some kid wants food that is too expensive or not obtainable Like meat, Or cheese, chocolate? Do you think they starve because little darling simply won’t eat unless they’re pandered too? Or do you think they’ll eat there rice or sweet potatoes or bananas or whatever there staple is?

I’m guessing this is a modern construct made from too many choices, fussy children (I accept children like adults prefer certain foods and tastes - in this case burgers and chips) and poor parenting styles (as your friend exhibits).

Like you, I’d let the fat kid either eat what’s in front of him or go hungry, his choice. He won’t "starve" as so many pp seem to dramatically state.

Letting little darling eat what he wants is likely to increase negative health outcomes in the future. Setting boundaries is likely to result in a tanty for a few days. I know which one I’d go for.

You were right. She needed to hear it.

Well, you did right in answering her query, of, what can I do etc, but your friend only half thought about it, but knew very well that you were correct about her sons eating habits. You wan't to help her of course, but by now, she should realise just why her son is going to be overweight, and work towards a better diet for him. and not give in to junk food.. only she can do this.

I have a neighbour here, and her son is always always, scoffing junk food.in between meals. His mum is a great cook, but the son can start eating junky stuff quite soon after his Mums meal, Then he has pocket money, and goes to the village shop, for crisps, cakes, sweets and awful cola rubbish and other canned fizzy stuff.
I would never say anything to her about this, as its not my business, but it makes me cringe all this junk stuff.

Its the "you're making him fat" that's really playing on my mind. I really should not have said that, that's really quite a cheap shot isn't it.

Not, it isn't. It's the truth. And she asked for it.

So many people who don't have fussy eaters. My DS is fussy. Has been fussy since 10 months old (ie before he was old enough to manipulate us). We did BLW, and he started off well, then at 10 months refused anything but weetbix and milk until he was 14 months old. When he decided he quite liked the look of my lentil curry. He's 6. His palate is so limited we have sought specialist help. Turns out he is as healthy as a horseall vitamins and minerals in balancebut that is luck, not management. He probably has RFIDGoogle itand there are strategies to manage it that we are using, but "starve him out" would literally mean "starve him".

OP, you not mentioned the lad having SN's so Im going to assume he's not like many of the children mentioned in the thread who's severe dietary problems obviously stem from sensory issues an/or possible ASD.

So SN aside I think I'd be discounting whats being advised in relation to the children who's dietary problems were far from the norm and Id concentrate instead on advise thats obviously from posters who are talking about the kind of problem your friend and her son have.

And for what its worth I have a son who at almost 30 still has severe dietary restrictions because of his disability though its not nearly as bad as when he was a young boy and he lived on toast and butter for a couple of years. It was toasted for a certain length of time, cut into certain shapes then spread with measured out amounts of butter.

Did he ever magically start to eat? No. Not even with the help of the professionals we brought in for advice and all the love and effort in the world from us. However when he had to start using medication in his teens it eased the symptoms of his disability and his sensory issues in particular and he now eats a few things from each food group that mean he is healthy. For e.g. his evening meal is always roast chicken with roast potato, carrots and broccoli or lamb chops or steak with the same.

Dietary issues for those with SN are never what they seem - someone just being fussy. They're actually down to extremely complex reasons and should never be confused with children like the one in the opening post who hasn't been described as having special needs (yet).

I’d let the fat kid

I think if you ever get fed up of your username you could change it to 'stevesmithisabigarsehole'.

I'm guessing the OP looks like this. 10/10 for sensitivity!

Tbh, I was an awful eater as a child. I hated everything really, and chopped and changed my mind about what I could/would eat.
My parents tried everything. They wouldn't let me leave the table until I had eaten, no alternatives available etc. I lost a load of weight and have had an awful relationship with food ever since. I've struggled with bulimia, I even convinced myself that it was a good thing! I was part of a pro-mia web forum as a teen. It resurfaces when I'm struggling, even now. I was being forced to eat something and my way of rebelling was to purge that something. That way, I won.

It's not always as simple as you think.

Check out mealtime hostage on FB. Also the SED (selective eating disorder) groups are very helpful. If he's fussy, "serve yourself" meals with at least one "safe" food in the table may be the way to start modifying eating habits.