...to be shocked that children are being excluded from parties?

[Peace425]

My DD has just started Year 1. In Reception, all of the children had parties which involved the whole class, or just girls/boys. This year I am shocked that everyone whose had or scheduled a party (there are a lot of Autumn/Winter babies) is picking out a handful of children to attend, and the same children are being excluded time and again.

I understand that parties can be expensive, but this is not to do with money. We live in a very affluent area and the parties tend to be a little extravagant. I am in a minority, living in a small three-bed semi; most of the families are very wealthy with massive homes.

There are a handful of children who seem to be being left out - some whose mothers do not know the other Mums as their children went to different pre-schools, but also some who have the reputation of being quite naughty.

I am inviting all of the girls to my DDs party, because it feels quite 'high school' to cherry pick. My DD did not want to invite certain girls, but I've told her she has to, because 'how would you feel if you were left out?'. Luckily, she seems to be quite popular, so has been invited to almost all of them.

If you don't want to spend much, you just have to be a bit more creative about the type of party you pick. I've hired a slightly tired
village hall that is cheap and will be doing my own games and crafts.

Or go really small - 3 or 4 friends - rather than a middle number that leaves out three or so girls (there are 15 girls in the class).

Some mums who I thought were really nice and fair, have surprised me with their attitudes to be honest. Is this now the norm??

@lifeonplastic again where does anyone on this thread say that excluding one child or a few children is acceptable? I don’t see it. People are saying they don’t want to feel they have to invite the whole class (for whatever reason) and the kids they invite are the ones their child is friends with.

The example you give above about your friend’s child being the only one to be excluded is obviously appalling.

Got to add that I wouldn't necessarily know who else gets invited to parties or if there was one kid who gets left out a lot or who has SEN. My niece is autistic and has ADHD and gets left out so I'd encourage my daughter to invite someone in her class who would otherwise be left out (we had the new girl the year before as she had only been there 2 weeks and I thought it would be nice for her). My nephew is dyspraxic (and yes he is always sticky!). My sister has ADHD. My cousin is autistic. My DD and DH are deaf. We are far from unfamiliar with dealing with issues but how would I know which kids are the odd ones out I should try to include?

I would be pissed off as a child if my mum had made me invite everyone to my party, even 24 yrs ago, it was very normal to invite a select few (never had anymore than 5 people) I don't ever remember feeling left out from not being invited to other people's parties.

Ooops, my DC are in years 2 and 5 and we've never had a whole class or even all-boys/all-girls party (...Missing the point, but why would you divide the class by sex? Doesn't your daughter have male and female friends? If not, wouldn't you want to encourage it?)

We've never done a big party because it gets so expensive and because I just think it's a bit excessive and OTT. Also, all the parties end up the same - same old soft play, same old bouncy castle in the village hall.

My DC have so far had smallish parties at home with about 6 friends or have chosen to go out and do something with a couple of close friends. They probably get invited to fewer parties as a result, but they seem to be ok with that!

Have explained on a previous similar thread that in DD1's class there was a child with obvious SN (now in specialised school) who was always invited to parties as it felt the right thing to do. I was shot down for being "patronising" and sneered at for making "pity invites". The reality is this child couldn't keep up with the others or really understand their games or what was going on so the kids didn't really get much out of the relationship they weren't friendships of equals but she was included out of kindness by some of the girls, which her mum appreciated. Its hard to win on this one as you get criticised for trying to do the right thing too.

Strongmummy there are a few - you might want to scroll back.

@lifeonplastic if we threw parties, I would never exclude one child. Or even just a few, with all the rest invited. I totally agree it is just cruel, and horrible. It's going out of your way to leave out only one or two kids.
I agree with MN etiquette that says less than half, or all.

I can see a reasoning for Reception Year inviting the whole class, especially in autumn term when they have not yet had time to make friends but after that, I think inviting friends only is totally the norm. Parents might insist on including a cousin or kid-next-door-but-one -year-younger but otherwise child chose about 6 to 10 friends depending on venue budget etc. As they get older and activity parties become more popular, the size of the group permitted dictates the numbers. The only exception I recall was one of my cousins inviting all year 5 but that was also because it was a summer birthday and the family were moving away shortly afterwards so it was more of a farewell/birthday party.

My DD specifically didn't want some children at her Y1 party as they're 'not nice' - her description. I let her pick who to invite, and added on anyone who's party she'd been to who she'd missed off the list.
We ended up with 18 invites, 3 of them not from her school. 16 were able to come, if I'd invited her whole class plus the ones who were in her class last year but are now in the other class who she wanted to invite then it would've been 35+ children which is a ridiculous amount IMO.

Whole class parties are a terrible idea. I would never do that. What a hamster wheel you are all setting yourselves on.

@lifeinplastic I must be blind because I can’t see them I’m afraid

I'd just like to add that inclusion isn't about being polite and kind, it's about making a person feel involved, wanted and like a valuable member of their peer group. Being kind and polite but then not making any effort to include them is not being inclusive.

I think I am going to leave this thread now but first of all I'd like to make the point that not encouraging your child to try and include a fellow peer who is often left out or being tactless when giving out party invitations e.g. leaving out a select few, is teaching your children that the majority excluding the minority is acceptable. This type of exclusion is a form of bullying and can lead onto more serious types of bullying.

As I mentioned earlier, very recently a young 14 year old boy with ADHD took his life in school due to bullying. There was uproar about this on social media with a chorus of hundreds of people saying how they would be ashamed if their children bullied, the parents of bullies should be punished etc. However, reading this mumsnet thread, I now wonder how many of these people have actively tried to encourage their children to be genuinely inclusive. It's very sad because I imagine there will now be lot of youngsters from that school growing up and wishing they had made more of an effort with this boy, or regretting that they reacted passively to him being bullied and excluded.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is, I think parents should be very careful about the messages they are sending their children when it comes to inclusion and exclusion. Birthday parties are an excellent way for parents to encourage genuine inclusion and whilst it's not really going to hurt your child to have someone they are not that friendly with at their party it could make a massive difference to that often excluded child.

leaving out a select few, is teaching your children that the majority excluding the minority is acceptable

the problem is that they are not leaving out a select few. They are inviting 1/4 or 1/3 of the children in the class. They are therefore leaving out 2/3 of the class.

Collectively, over the year, it may be that the same children are invited. But my dd gets invited to maybe 3 or 4 parties per year. Out of a class of 30.
I just don't see how you choose form the 2/3 of the class - Oh I wonder which ones don't get party invites etc.

As a parent, most of us do not know who does and doesn't get invites. It isn't always obvious. One of dds friends for example is only ever invited to dds party. Never to anyone else's. I strongly suspect that is because he never has a party himself. It just so happens he has ASD. I would never has guessed he didn't get invites, because he is popular.

And I say it again. If you are having 6-10 children, all close friends, it really doesn't work to throw in a child who none of them are friends with. Quite different of you have 15-20 kids.

Out of interest before I go back and read the thread properly. Those of you who use the let the child lead approach and especially those who are thinking the parents are not trying hard enough with parties, playdates etc.

How many of you have had a party for your child where NOBODY has turned up. Playdates turned down over and over again. Are you child led when your child gets an invite to a party of a child who has SN and they don't want to go because X,y,z? Are you aware that every other parent has had the same thoughts?

Now if you have had a no turn up to your child's party and seen their crushed faces. Would you honestly think that you 'arent trying hard enough' and give it another go next time?

Any ideas as to why some people don’t give reciprocal invites?

I think the idea of dividing by gender is actually a good one. Eg if all the boys are going to a party, the girls are far less likely to mind than they would if a couple of girls got picked. Feelings can be very, very hurt at age 6&7 so I think dividing by gender is actually one of the only fair ways to do it

Digggers - in our school many children do not have parties. Cost mainly I would say. Or big families and they celebrate birthdays with cousins etc.

So no reciprocal invites from them.
Of the kids my dc have invited over the years, I would say reciprocal invites come from less than half.

My two were very clear who their friends were from about year 2 onwards. Children they played with at school, who they felt comfortable with, had fun with and were similar to. Those were the ones invited to their parties - usually less than 10 guests. Is it a general parental obligation to override that and insist they invite x who they don't really know to be inclusive? Maybe it is. But in reality people don't do this they focus on the narrow task in hand, making sure their kid has a fun birthday at minimal personal cost to them and they don't have the time or the inclination to think about the bigger picture. I don't know what the answer is.

That said feeling left out of stuff is always going to happen and to some extent children have to learn resilience and to deal with it. Shit I have just found out I have been left out of something and feel abit shit about it and I am 43! That said being left out of every party is cruel and to the parents of kids that has happened to.

Why should it be fair that the children with the most to deal with (SEN, neglect and all other reasons for being «different» and not managing to make friends easily. ) be the ones that have to be most resilient and cope with the most rejection and exclusion?

God forbid any of you with your «they just play with and invite the children they like» have the misfortune for your child to have an accident or a serious disabling injury and walk a mile in the shoes of us parents of kids who are excluded.

To make a society equal, you need to actively include, not just leave your children to it.

Came in to this one because I thought it would be about SEN or children with disabilities being excluded. Seems it's just another one about entitlements and silly social rules.

DD has been left off yet another invite list today because of her disability. That's what exclusion is and it isn't pretty.

@strongmummy I think your inappropriate reference to a disability is quite apt to your wilfull ignorance on the subject.

The OP is about a handful of children being left out. A significant amount of posters have replied ‘yabu’ to the op, meaning they agree with leaving a handful out, with intermittent replies from parents of SEN saying their child is always excluded.
How can you not understand the link here.

The excuses here are really poor too. ‘I don’t know who’s SEN’ .
Here’s an idea- why don’t you ask your child who in their class is always on their own or doesn’t have many friends? There’s a good chance it’s them.
Those who child-lead are the worst of them all. You might think you’re teaching your child boundaries. But you’re just teaching them entitlement & it’s okay to outcast someone because they’re ‘different’. You are literally the driving force behind exclusion and ostrizising of disabled children. Well done 👍.

Why don’t parents teach their children the importance of making everyone feel included instead. That whilst some friendships may be harder doesn’t make them any less valuable.
That the child who is always on their own would appreciate it so much if they played with them.

This is why I’m so glad mine is in a resource base. And why I usually stay away from these threads.

The number of kids you can invite is often limited by budget or by the venue. Inviting all the boys or girls could be at least 15 kids @ £10-£15 a head depending on venue so that’s £150-£225 which is pretty steep. This is cost might not always include food, cake and party bags and then there are birthday presents for the child. Kids birthdays are bloody expensive and people shouldn’t feel financial pressure to put on a party to keep everyone in the class happy.

Digggers perhaps many of us selfish parents haven’t told you that one or two of the kids we invite are ‘that kid’ or SEN because we don’t want to be accused of virtue signalling?

Perhaps our kids are ‘that kid’ and we’re only inviting the kids they get on with, that don’t hurt their feelings?

Perhaps our kids don’t cope well with 20+ kids all hyped up in a church hall?

Lots of judgement here about why kids might prefer smaller parties. Some parents are not selfish but looking after their own kids MH.

YY while it is good to be inclusive this should not be at the expense of your own child’s MH. I insisted that DD1 invited all the girls in her class to her Y1 party in order to avoid anyone feeling left out. The morning of her party DD had a huge meltdown because two girls had been bullying DD for quite a while and were threatening to ruin her party. She wanted to cancel the party because she did not want to spend her birthday with these two and had been dreading it for weeks.

It is important to listen to your child. If there is someone that they don’t want to play with or invite to their house for a play date or invite to a party then they might have have a genuine reason for this.

@mariatequila I’m really confused as to what you’re referring to. Can you explain.