...to be shocked that children are being excluded from parties?

[Peace425]

My DD has just started Year 1. In Reception, all of the children had parties which involved the whole class, or just girls/boys. This year I am shocked that everyone whose had or scheduled a party (there are a lot of Autumn/Winter babies) is picking out a handful of children to attend, and the same children are being excluded time and again.

I understand that parties can be expensive, but this is not to do with money. We live in a very affluent area and the parties tend to be a little extravagant. I am in a minority, living in a small three-bed semi; most of the families are very wealthy with massive homes.

There are a handful of children who seem to be being left out - some whose mothers do not know the other Mums as their children went to different pre-schools, but also some who have the reputation of being quite naughty.

I am inviting all of the girls to my DDs party, because it feels quite 'high school' to cherry pick. My DD did not want to invite certain girls, but I've told her she has to, because 'how would you feel if you were left out?'. Luckily, she seems to be quite popular, so has been invited to almost all of them.

If you don't want to spend much, you just have to be a bit more creative about the type of party you pick. I've hired a slightly tired
village hall that is cheap and will be doing my own games and crafts.

Or go really small - 3 or 4 friends - rather than a middle number that leaves out three or so girls (there are 15 girls in the class).

Some mums who I thought were really nice and fair, have surprised me with their attitudes to be honest. Is this now the norm??

Sozzler 100% agreed.
Posts defending exclusion tell me far more about the poster than the excluded child.

The party is being held for the birthday child to enjoy, not for the benefit of the entire class. Why would you make them invite people they don't like? I have always allowed my kids to choose the people they are friends with. The only exception is that I wouldn't have let them invite everyone but one, or everyone but the SEN kids. But this has never come up because they have always picked 6-10 children who they like and are friends with.

Not being critical of families with SEN children at all, but if you have a child with SEN do you invite others round to play or hold parties of your own? It tends to be reciprocal. My friend's child has severe special needs but they make great efforts to socialise and invite people to their home, and he gets invited to all the school kids parties. If you or your child keep making efforts and people refuse to reciprocate that is really mean. But if you don't make an effort yourself then you can't really expect others to.

Both my kids have SEN. Both have birthday parties each year and we even have a Halloween party each year too. They don’t get invites back.

This thread has been an education. I thought I was already pretty cynical but this thread of mother after mother saying that they actually don't care one bit that a few children with no behavioural issues are not given the opportunity to attend a single party in primary school has put a sledgehammer through what little faith I had in human nature.

It wouldn't be very hard to invite one or two of these children some years, people just don't want to. Well, life has a way of teaching us unpleasant and unwanted lessons. Some of you will have the opportunity to feel your child's pain when they find themselves the repeatedly excluded ones. I'm sure you will remember these other children you couldn't extend even a little kindness to.

Not everyone can do whole class parties. Aside from the expense, having the whole class means hiring a hall and doing it all yourself. Venues like trampolining etc usually have a limit of attendees that’s less than a class size.
We have no family to help and a young baby therefore my husband and I couldn’t manage a whole class affair ourselves.
We’ve always invited DSs friends from out of school and then his close friends at school.

I see this has the usual splits... the "I'll invite who I want and we don't want 'the SEN kid' who might misbehave and the usual 'the non-inviteds are little sods' " camp... versus the "camp of the outsiders"

I've got two kids, a year between them. One gets left out of some small group parties because she's everyone's friend but not really a close friend with some of them - but still gets a lot of invites. In terms of my kids' comparative behaviour - she's "the little sod" but she's a sociable sod with a lot of friends.

The other is the most placid, beautifully behaved, funny little thing. Gets invited to nowt (bar the very odd whole-class thing). Stands there on the playground while invites are handed out among friends directly in front of her, looks at me upset, but then visibly dusts herself off mentally and gets on with things. She's 5.

Part of the problem in her case is the mums are incredibly cliquey in that year group - but also - she's "the SEN kid". Not autism - which has been mentioned again and again but dyspraxia and her being that little bit off balance, that little bit spatially unaware and her speech sounding different has been justification to exclude this child (to the point kids will walk away from her saying hello to them on the playground on a morning and blank her completely) to the extent that she's just invented a classful of imaginary friends to play with because her peers are such absolute utter nastiness towards her (and I cry as I type that line because it's heartbreaking).

She's the kid who'd be beautifully behaved, say thank you for being invited, give the birthday kid a hug and be desperate to give them their present... but partly because of the mean girl mums crowd and partly just because she is slightly different - no chance.

I've actually given school explicit permission to discuss her diagnosis and difficulties with the class (and parents if necessary) to try to smooth over a bit of understanding over it all if required. I'm hoping that that might help - but with some of the girls in there (there's a trio in there who do have an emergent streak that's not very kind) I'm doubtful.

I shall now be hiding this thread before the justifications for just leaving those terrible "different" kids out start. Just think of a 5 year old who's having to invent bloody imaginary friends though - and how awful it feels as a parent to know that's what she's doing.

@charles I Don’t think anyone on the thread has said that. They’ve said they let their kids choose who they want.

However, this thread has highlighted how important invitations are to children with SEN and that being inclusive is important. I will absolutely bear that in mind going forward, altho I stand by my point that a child who is likely to be violent to others wouldn’t be invited .

It’s also highlighted how important invitations are to some parents and that we need to step back and ensure we’re not projecting our own insecurities on our kids

Grim squeaker

My two are dyspraxic too. I often see kids just ignore them and run away from them. Because their speech isn’t fast enough, because they get their words jumbled, because they can’t run fast enough, don’t understand the rules of games, don’t understand personal space, are usually messy and sticky.

It is heartbreaking

@lifeinplastic
As I said earlier in the thread, we don't have birthday parties with school friends anyway.
But unless you also spend your personal time, including birthdays, with adults who are unrelated to you, and behave antisocially, aren't someone you particularly get on with, or are unpleasant or violent towards you, then you're behaving unreasonably in asking your own children to do the same.
I don't expect my children to have to spend their own personal time with people they don't like. Do you require yourself to spend personal time with adults you don't like?
Because I know I wouldn't. So I can't reasonably ask my children to.
Did you miss the part where I speak to my children about why other children might misbehave, (being in fostercare, SEN, having difficulty at home,) and encourage compassion? I'm absolutely a "nice person". I just allow my children to have boundaries.

As others have said parents with children with SEN get use to this really early on in school life. Sad but you cannot make children invite your SEN children, society isn't really as inclusive as some believe

I must say, also, reading about the kids who are left out not because they're unpleasant, but just because they're "different" is awful. Every child should know to give other kids a proper chance before they know whether or not they get on with them.
My own son (HFA) has had that happen. He's found his little tribe now at 10, but he spent years being the odd one out. I felt terrible for him - but neither would I want other children to take him on as a charity case. I want him to find people who like him for him, not people who give him pity invites.

GrimSqueaker I'm so sorry to hear about your daughter being excluded like that. There have been some really heartbreaking stories of people's children being excluded on this thread that I'm in finding it really difficult to understand why people are still trying to justify this kind of exclusion.
It's so upsetting as a parent to feel your child is being left out. My daughter was always excluded from play in the first school she went to, it was heartbreaking seeing a 5 year old coming home upset because no one would play with her. It was a small school where parents were very cliquey and their children socialised outside of school. However despite this she was still invited to birthday parties and none of the parents ever excluded any children. Her new school is bigger and much more inclusive, they have someone designated to ensuring all children are included in play and work intensively with new pupils and those with SEN to ensure they are included which helps with things like birthday party invites a lot.

Strongmummy People have said that they ask their children to give them X number of names and that's not going to change. So that means that some children who aren't anyone's particular friend will never or rarely be invited. This has been point out repeatedly but people are still defending their way of doing things and saying there won't be any changes.

Children who don't have firm friends are certainly not all children with behavioural problems or even SEN. They are often different in some way. Quiet, seen as odd, problems at home making them scruffy, maybe a bit smelly or not have cool stuff. Penisbeaker has covered many of the issues better than I can.

I went through puberty really early, grew massively and was seen as an outsider for that reason. It massively affected my confidence (puberty and the outsider issue) and I became really quiet and withdrawn. I wasn't invited to play at anyone's home, unlike my sister, but I was always invited to parties. They must have been all-class parties. I was already clinging on by a thread, thank goodness the family emigrated when it did. I cannot imagine enduring the ultimate act of rejection by being repeatedly passed over for party invitations. When I hear these accounts I think, thank goodness that didn't happen to me when life was already so confusing and so hard.

I cannot imagine enduring the ultimate act of rejection by being repeatedly passed over for party invitations.
I have realised during this thread, that I only got invited to about one birthday party a year as a child (I assume, I can't actually remember, but I did have one best friend.) For me, it wasn't not going to parties, (which I now don't even remember,) that stuck with me into adulthood - it was kids who ostracised me at school

@charles asking kids to provide you with a list of names is very different to accusing people of not giving a shit.

I do care about kids who are a bit different, have SEN, are not so popular. I care that my son is friendly to everyone and not unkind. In fact I’d be fuming if I found out my son was unkind to anyone.

However, what I won’t do is dictate who my son is friends with, who he wants to play with at school and who he wants to spend his time with after school.

As an adult I’m inclusive in that I am polite and friendly to everyone, but that doesn’t mean I spend my personal time with people that I don’t actually like! I wouldn’t expect my son too either. However, I also wouldn’t expect my son to dislike peers because they may be different, have SEN etc.....I’d hope I’d taught him better than that

It's not always sen. There is a child in dd2 year I have really tried with. She is very shy. I adore her Mum and know her in a professional capacity. I would love to have her over with her dd for a play date. I have shoved dd2 at her quite a bit both with parties and at events in the community. Dd2 has tried and tried but she's so shy dd2 can't get her to join in. Dd2 gravitates to the louder children. It's a shame but I really tried :-(

"For me, it wasn't not going to parties, (which I now don't even remember,) that stuck with me into adulthood - it was kids who ostracised me at school" indeed Scrumplestilskin

Being ostracised, excluded from everything, not spoken to because you are different/a poor child/a smelly child/not wearing the right clothing/not attending the 'right' clubs/SEN/and a lot of other reasons, children can be cruel sometimes intentionally and sometimes not and of course adults can be just the same. I have worked with children who encounter many problems and often school is not the safe place they hope. Education and understanding of difference and thoughts of others/mental health etc might help a bit in the future.

Diggers, that is really a shame.

I'm really at a loss because I get that it's really hard for kids that want to be included and aren't but on the other hand I can't and won't try to make my kids be friends with someone they are not friends with. Encourage them to be kind to everyone, yes but kids who have social issues are not always going to appear to welcome friendship and you can't force these things.

@Boulty I absolutely agree. Although I obviously think (from previous comments) that out of school, children shouldn't be pressured into spending time with children they don't "click" with. But at school I think that children should be taught to be inclusive, generous, compassionate, and to perhaps think about what might be behind another child being odd/"naughty" and to give them a really good chance before they decide they "don't like them". And to always be kind and friendly even to children they don't necessarily like.

The basic rule we have always gone with is - less the half the class, or everyone.
That also seems to be a mn mantra.

If you invite more than half the class, then you need to invite them all.
This also applies to girl/boy. So, if you invite more than half the girls, then invite them all.

I am somewhat puzzled by the idea that year 1 kids have 'only girl' parties though. Mine all had mixed sex parties right up until age 10. In fact dd2 is having 8 girls and boys to her 11th soon.

To me the basic issue is that I can't host a whole class party. Never done one. So dcs get to chose 10 kids. They choose their friendship group. Sometimes 1 or 2 of the 10 are from outside school, so 8 kids from their class.
I have always tried to be fair, but (s)he is choosing just a few kids from her friendship group.
How do I explain to my dc that her close friend x can't come in preference to another child she never plays with?
Fine if you are inviting the whole class, but not if you are just inviting a group of friends.

I do get it, I really do, but just would like someone to genuinely say they have excluded their dcs friends in favour of someone they never play with, when only 10 kids are coming?
I don't think it happens and I don't think it is going to happen.

It is different to saying that through the year you try and encourage friendships, or try and arrange playdates with some of the more isolated kids. But to be honest, you often only know who they are if you help out in class.

Just to add a curve ball here. Real examples. Not at the school mine attend but friends of friends.

child with low level autism. Finds parties completely overwhelming but is well behaved. Mum always comes to help. However on their birthday only invited 4 friends as that’s all they can cope with. Cue other friends who were not invited being in a strop with the birthday child at school because she didn’t invite them.

Another child who is again lovely. Has an older (by 3 years) sibling with SEN and his behaviour is exhausting. Single parent family. So basically if you invite the lovely little girl, mum comes and brings older sibling as obviously she has no one to leave him with and the girl is only 4 and too young to leave. The sibling then runs riot, is bigger and rougher that all the other kids, snatching toys, constantly trying to take food and wrecking party table when it’s not food time. Generally really tricky behaviour. Mum is there are does intervene, but to be honest I imagine she is absolutely exhausted and needs half an hour to just sit and chat which I do t blame her for. It’s no ones fault but a v tricky situation.

I did party at home, told her she could invite 6-8. She choose 5 from her class and 2 from other class so the vast majority weren’t invited. I have neither the cash nor the inclination to do a full class party.

I think it’s normal but parents have to be sensitive. She wanted 16 originally and I said no as that’d be excluding a few. Either invite a small number or everyone. Don’t leave 2-3 out.

Inviting a child who usually doesn't get invited isn't a marriage proposal. It's not even a friendship proposal. It's a few hours, maybe every few years. It's just a nice thing to do, can promote better understanding of the child and may lead to a friendship of sorts. Because talk is very cheap Strongmummy. But I can see I'm fighting a losing battle, I knew I was.

I hope that the parents of the different ones can find the resources financial and otherwise to try to make the pain less for their children. Unfortunately some of these children have parents who are struggling badly or a proper mess so trying to build friendships at out-of-school activities or hosting play dates etc is out of the question.

Scrumple of course you don’t have to spend time with people you don’t like, but you don’t exclude one member of the same group. In a workplace for example, if you invited your whole department (of say 20) out for drinks or lunch and excluded one person, the law would actually consider that bullying.
Nobody is saying you have to invite everyone from the class, but it is fucking cruel to exclude just one child of 30. Fucking cruel. There’s no justification. None.
Don’t want to invite everyone, fine, just don’t invite everyone but one child.
Happened to a friend of mine. Her child, class of 15 (small rural school). Child has SEN. Didn’t get invited to a single party throughout reception. So she called out the other mums. All sorts of excuses came out the woodwork ‘oh we thought he wouldn’t want to come’, ‘oh, we thought we had invited x’. Now, a few years in, they all suck up to my friend and her child as they’ve twigged she’s loaded and throws fabulous kid and adult parties. Too little too late. As if she’d want to spend any time with those horrible horrible mums.

We don't have "same sex parties" that is odd. My DD is told she can invite 10 kids and to pick the ones she likes. It is normally her 2 cousins, her 1 outside of friend school, one of the boys in her class and his younger sister and then 4 or 5 others. Last year she chose another boy from her class and 3 of the girls. I let her pick the kids she likes. I thought everyone did this? There are 14 girls in her class and she certainly didn't get 14 invites last year. She was invited by kids I know are her friends from her year and others and outside school....