When did we become ok with the burka?

[Banana8080]

In my childhood (80s90s) I remember being sad some Muslim women were pressured not to show their full faces in public ie become invisible. These days much more focus on a women right to choose aka wear the full vail, even those who are possible under pressure.

When/why did this change happen?

I have met women who choose in public to veil and they told me it's all about appearances, it about the wider community thinking that the man has his wife under control to give him leverage in the community - one particular lady I know doesn't veil in private in front of men, not even her hair on holiday but around here she looks the dutiful wife mostly for business reasons, she's the feistiest woman I know and has encouraged her girls to move away to less Asian heavy areas and the eldest is marrying a practicing Christian. Be careful of making assumptions.

I hate the veil, I'll be honest, it's separating but don't assume motivation, very complex, and isn't just the family or husband exerting pressure to conform

Exactly it’s the whole community, not a woman’s choice at all,

@gin96

First page there's a woman who wears it

@Gerdaloveslili Really? That's the best you could come up with?
No that's what you came up with.
As you can see, it makes no sense

@enthusiasmisdisturbed
The point is there are just as many places that force women to not cover, as there are that force them to cover. And that there are places where people have an issue with hijab.

How can you be comfortable in a Burka? You have to take it off to be able to do daily tasks, there is no benefit in wearing it.

Please give me an example of when a Burka or niqab is useful to wear in your daily life apart from it stops men looking at you and seeing you as a sex object or it brings you closer to god?

there's many items of clothing that aren't useful or necessary.
Not being useful or personally understanding the point of an item isn't a reason to disallow it.

I can’t see how covering yourself up would bring you closer to God. All of us are Gods creation. If anything we should be proud of our uniqueness. If anything it is insulting to God to hide away what HE has created. It is also ridiculous to blindly follow any religion to its extremes. I believe in God, but i don’t believe in following my religions set rules. I also don’t feel the need to advertise the fact of who i am by wearing certain clothes. I’m no more special than anyone else.

That's great for you.

Do you also think that everyone should feel the same as you and if they don't they are wrong, and should be prevented from expression?

I don’ want dis allow it i’m Trying to understand why a woman would choose out of her own free will to wear a garment that hi Wes her from even eating or drinking without causing difficulties

Please explain?

Toddlers are the same, no matter what religion they are and there's every chance that this little girl simply kicked off because she wanted to be like Mummy

I find this a ridiculous excuse for children wearing religious garments originally designed to keep females hidden.

My toddler can kick of that they can't wear a bra like mummy. But like fuck is she wearing one She has nothing to cover!

I think all this 'to be like mummy' stuff is nonsense. I've seen a family who has a 3 year old covered. The 4 older girls are also heavily covered. I doubt it's because they wanted to copy their mum

Sorry let me write that again I don’t want it banned i’m trying to understand why a woman would want to wear a garment under her own free will that even hinders her from eating and drinking,

I don’t want it banned i’m trying to understand why a woman would want to wear a garment under her own free will that even hinders her from eating and drinking

Why do you choose your clothes in the morning? I know I choose what I think looks nice and suits me, but I also bring a whole lot of cultural baggage with it. That’s why I don’t wear a bikini to a board meeting or a suit to a club or a sparkly pink body con dress to a funeral. I also try and express something of my own personality through my clothing and also it’s affected by my beliefs which again are affected by my culture because I don’t mind showing skin but I follow the chicken dinner rule: you can have leg or breast (exposed) but not both.

I imagine they go through exactly the same process but reach a different conclusion because they have a different backgrounds, cultures and experience to me. It’s not that hard to understand, it’s the same reason why 90 year old Great Grans don’t dress the same as 15 year old girls.

To me it is so hard to understand, I choose clothes for the weather, wellies for mud and wet, trainers and tracksuit for runnng, equestrian wear for stretchy easy to move material. Covering your mouth in public just say you have no voice, covering your face you have no identity. That is the only practical purpose it has and that doesn’t benifit the woman.

Well that depends what the woman wants out of it doesn’t it? If a woman gets up in the morning and decides that she doesn’t want to interact with anybody around her but her family or have anything to do with the community around her or build relationships with them then a niqab or a burka would offer benefits in her view.

And wearing a burka does send out messages. It’s a rejection of western society and values and an outward expression of that. They may well feel that message is far more powerful than any words they could speak.

In France there is no show of religion in public school that is not the same as being forced to cover as it applies to all religions and both sexes and all symbols of religion jewelry etc and this is a country with a large practicing number of Catholics

And the same applies to civil service work places

It’s becuase these places should be kept free if all religious influences

There are religious schools that it doesn’t apply to and in public women can wear the hijab

That is far from being forced to wear a hijab/niqab

That’s fine reject the west but that won’t improve your life on a daily basis also how can it be powerful statement when you have no identity it doesn’t mean anything as we can’t even see who you are

The idea of rejecting the west isn't coming from the women though. It's coming from other people's interpretations and assumptions.
I don't agree that it means you don't have an identity as the women I know defintely do have an identity.

Also I was wondering what you lot thought about this.
Do you think air b n b acted wrongly?

I can only read the grey boxes

So she was wearing a hijab head covering and they didn’t like this ?

They have an identity as you have got to know them

Getting to know someone when they wear a face covering is an obstacle let’s not forget why it was designed in the first place to keep women anonymous. When talking to people we read their facial expressions and body language not just listen to what they are saying

Because in practise banning women from wearing any item of clothing is only going to have a negative impact on women's rights and will alienate women who do feel they need to wear it even more and push them into the fringes.

In France there is no show of religion in public school that is not the same as being forced to cover as it applies to all religions and both sexes and all symbols of religion jewelry etc and this is a country with a large practicing number of Catholics*

France doesn’t have many practicing Catholics. Less than 5%. It has the largest percentage of atheists of anywhere in the world.

The revolution starting in 1789 dechristianized France forcibly and most people didn’t pick the religion back up after that. France’s secularism stems from that and long predates mass migration.

I thought it was much higher or I might have read a high number identity as catholic

Still it’s a country that has population with mixed religious beliefs and keeps state and religion separate