To not want to move to the other side of the world

[noprobllamas]

DP has always wanted to move to Australia, he has some family there (his uncle moved there years ago and started a family) so he has been there many times. We agreed that perhaps we'd move there in some years time, when we have more money, it sounded like a nice idea but unrealistic at least for many years. So DH worked hard, started a career and saved. Last year we decided to go on holiday there, I loved it but i just couldn't see myself living there, we were there for about 3 weeks and i felt quite homesick towards the end. He's been saying we could move this time next year, I've said I don't think I want to and he's annoyed because I'm holding him back from his dreams apparently. I've always lived in the same town, the thought of living so far away scares me a bit honestly. I'm not sure whether this is the best thing for our two DD's, what the education system is like there. There's also that we can either live comfortable here or be tight for money in Australia. I don't really want to move from family and friends either

agree with everything AmIcrazyorwhat said.

I think to make an overseas move work you really need to be that particular type of person. It's hard and if you're not committed from the start, it's never going to work.
I'm an Aussie who had lived in the UK for years. Both of us have the "wanderlust gene". It was hard at the start and we questioned whether we had made the right decision but we stuck it out and loved it (and are now homesick for the UK!). We won't return to Australia to live, not because it's not a great place to live, it's just not the right place for us.

We are now based in South East Asia. Again, it's hard. I thought because we'd made the leap before we'd find this easy. It hasn't been! That's not to say we don't enjoy it and don't appreciate the opportunity but if you're already not convinced, it's going to be difficult. You'll struggle to see the positives. And in the beginning, sometimes the positives are hard to see.

I realise I haven't talked it up! I love our life and the cultural diversity we've experienced, not just for us but for our kids. My son was born in London and we are pregnant with our second child, who will be born in Malaysia. We have no intentions of staying here. We will do the contracted stint of 3 years but we are really hoping to make it to the US and settle there. And so that's our focus, saving hard and ensuring our careers are in line with what the US are wanting to employ (similar to what your husband has been doing all these years).

As someone who has that dream of living in countries, I'd be devastated to give up that dream, especially if I had planned on doing it with my significant other and they were now refusing to go. It would be heartbreaking for me. But as someone who has actually done it, your attitude towards it already tells me you would struggle. You need to be all in. You can't do this half assed. It's challenging, but an incredible challenge, if you let it be. It will be the hardest thing you ever do but also the most rewarding. But I'm also of the opinion of "why not?"! I'd always recommend someone at least give it a chance. You're never going to know if you don't give it a shot, and that goes for both of you. He might get there and hate it, you might get there and love it.

If you're actually able to move visa-wise, Write a pros and cons list of the UK vs Australia. We do this every time we consider a move, or we're struggling with expat life. Having it clear in front of you helps make a balanced decision, whether it be financially or emotionally. If you do go, you need to give it a serious go, not just pull the pin after a few weeks when it gets too hard. You need to stick it out for a few months at least. You'll need to open about what happens if you don't enjoy it, how long will you give yourselves, what's your back up plan (We kept our house in Australia, just in case) Will your employers let you have unpaid leave for a year? You'll also need to have a serious chat with your husband in regards to the emotions behind the move. Is he going to resent you for not going? Are you going to resent him for going? Will either of you have regrets at the end of the day? And will you be able to live with the regret?

I know how hard this decision is to make! It's emotional! I've shed plenty of tears over our decisions thinking I'd miss too much, or hate it, or it's too hard. I also have no regrets, I've given it my all and have made the most of every opportunity. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but you're never going to know unless you do it for yourself. Good luck!

We moved & we love it but it was something we both wanted to do. It’s hard work reestablishing yourselves into a community. Please listen to other posters regarding the children - Australia is a signatory to The Hague Covention on the Civil Apects Of International Child Abduction (as is the UK, by the way!). If a child is removed without the consent of both parents from a country which is deemed to be its usual domicile, a signatory country is bound by international law to return the child to the parent/guardian in the country from where it was taken. It doesn’t matter if you agree “only for a year” between you.

If you did want to trial it, I think you’d be advised to seek advice regarding international custody disputes and whether you could put a legal agreement in place before you go that would allow you to take the children back with you if you did want to return.

And please don’t think I’m scaremongering. I’ve seen this used as a coercive tactic more than once (not just in Australia - controlling twats live all over the world).

@SunshineSnowflakesDaydreams sorry if too personal question but if you're not returning to Aus will you sell your house?

I'm assuming you went Aus-UK-Malayasia as you said you're missing the UK not Aus?

Sweary I think one of the big differences though, between UK and countries such as Oz is this extra layer of “parent alienation”. This is what has tripped up a couple of my friends. They have escaped from really horrible relationships, but before they can even make a case for going back o/seas, or even to a different state ,the ex has shouted alienation, and it’s ended up being a horrible, protracted, court case. As you say, controlling twats the world over, we just have this horrible extra issue that is used as a way of making sure the family can’t move on if the ex doesn’t want them to.

Anyway, I’ve already said enough!

@RollerJed We have the house on the market now, funnily enough!
We did actually return to Australia, for 3 months but it no longer felt like home to us. We moved back for the wrong reasons. We had 3 choices, fortunately, to return to old job in London, a fly in fly out job in Australia (3 weeks on, 1 week off) or an opportunity in Malaysia. The decision was based on finances and the potential to work for a company with offices all over the world. If an offer ever came back up in the UK we'd take it in a heartbeat! Sure, it was an expensive exercise to figure it out but I wouldn't change it. It confirmed what we knew deep down and now there's no wondering. Our biggest concern for the future is what happens with elderly parents. Both sides are fighting fit for now but that won't always be the case.

I feel very sorry for your DP. He’s been consistently wanting this for years and years and has worked hard to achieve it. You gave the impression you were (more or less) on board but you never really were. If I was him I’d definitely feel that you deceived him.

However, I do also know a couple who moved to Australia and split up, the woman is now stuck there because the man won’t give her permission to move back to the UK with their two DC. It is a real thing.

You could give it a try, if you said you'd do it. We had a (very short notice) move to the other side of the world. Not especially what I wanted and it gave me the heeby heebie to move, but we gave it a go anyway and actually I love it. Not having grandparents is sometimes a bit of a hassle but if your dp (and you if you work) is in a job that earns enough to go to Oz you can always throw money at the problem and hire babysitters etc if DC are young. It does cost to get over to a new country but it is possible to get down to the bare essentials, put stuff in storage, and rent somewhere furnished while you try it out.

It sounds like you just pretended to want to move there eventually because you didn't think it would be possible. So you lied, no wonder your husband is upset.

Don't go if you really don't want to, OP. I have 2 friends who both moved to Oz with their partners/husbands, and both stayed 10 years and both absolutely hated it. They found the casual racism horrifying and the lack of culture depressing. One of them describes it as the worst 10 years of her life. The other reckons that if you're not into sport, it's hard to have a meaningful conversation with anyone.

They returned to the UK 15 and18 years ago though, so things may have improved since then.

My SIL and her husband went to Oz too. They're loaded, so visas etc weren't a problem and their plan was to buy a business there. It all went tits up, the business they almost bought for £1.5m would barely have given them a decent living, everything was far more expensive than they ever imagined, the husband realised he wouldn't be able to get staff to work 12-hour days, 7 days a week like he does here and they came back with their tails between their legs after 18 months a lot poorer and somewhat wiser.

The only things they really liked about it were the weather and the lack of black people. They were in Queensland though, I daresay Sydney is more cosmopolitan.

I really do despair sometimes at posts like the last one. Australia has plenty of culture, including the oldest one in the world that happens to be black. Its no more racist that anywhere else, and I get really fed up with that old trope being trotted out by people who haven’t even set foot in the place, it’s just bloody tedious! And I hate bloody sport, yet have had no problems whatsoever finding friends here and having a rich social life. Perhaps that’s because people here take you at face value, instead of writing off an entire country based on what their mate who visited twenty years told them about you!

Queensland is almost like a whole different place, and I bet they weren't in a metropolitan area. A lot of it is quite regional, rural and majority white. Of course you won't find culture or diversity in some of those small towns or old fashioned places. They clearly didn't pick wisely because there's plenty of culture elsewhere, pretty much in almost every state (and Brisbane and cities)

I go back to my earlier point. What is it that the DH thinks he can achieve in Oz that is simply not possible in the UK? Can he articulate this at all?

I am not originally from the UK. When I am asked why I chose to stay here, I can give a list of reasons I feel it benefits my family and me. There is a degree of logic.

I am fascinated by people who make huge decisions like this on heart only, which it feels like this is.

I am not saying NEVER do anything on the basis of instinct and there are some things that perhaps against a longer list of 'cons' might always trump others (helping an elderly parent) but this is SUCH a life changing, consequential decision it is ridiculous for the OP to feel like she needs to go ahead just because she said she'd 'consider' it at one point nearly a decade ago.

He owes her more than that.

I have numerous friends in relationships with partners from other countries. They have really struggled when they feel like they're trapped living in jurisdictions entirely on the basis of the partners' needs - and this is when that partner is actually from there.

I have a friend who was moved to a third party country by her DH- they divorced within a couple of years. She was able to bring their child back (but it was an EU country) although in the proceedings he tried to argue the child was '[a national of that new country in all but name]' now. He was a lifelong 'phile of this country...now married to a local. I have to wonder if he'll suddenly get a hankering for a wife from yet another jurisdiction....

SunshineSnowflakesDaydreams interesting!

We are back in Aus 2 weeks and it doesn't feel like home yet but it took a few years for the UK to feel like home.

I'm going to speak with dh today about where he sees us in 5 years time. At the moment Malayasia would be a good compromise as we'd be half between his family and mine.

Good grief! Lakie’s description of Queensland is a bit off! Firstly, QLD is a state, not a city, so comparing it to Sydney is also a bit confusing. It is almost 1.8 million km squared. (1.11 miles2) Yes... there are racists here in Australia. I found just as many there in the UK. More in the Netherlands - which prides itself on being a “tolerant” society. Some humans are racist. Some are not.
Anyhow, regardless.... I have been a trailing spouse and it’s not easy. If you are accustomed to having family to rely on (babysitting, anyone?), friends to drop by, etc.... You have to start from scratch. This puts a lot of pressure on your relationship. Australia can be a lot more expensive than the UK - and in unexpected areas. Our utilities are ridiculous, our taxes are high, we pay a lot more for medicines and doctors visits than you do, etc. Do you know for certain that your husband would qualify for a visa? Would you be able to afford to live in the city of your choice (in an area that you would want to bring your children up in?) A lot of the Wanted Down Under places are in areas I’d rather chew off my own leg than live in, btw....

It’s time to be honest, you’ve smiled and nodded for nine years and now it’s crunch time.

Another somewhat stuck expat here.
I'd say don't do it.
My DH is Aussie so it was always a given that we were likely to move here, especially as he's very close to his mum and didn't want to leave her on her own. My dad lives near my sister, so I wasn't quite leaving him on his own in the same way.
We've been her 9 years now and I'm still homesick - but that's because we go back every year so my boys can see my Dad and other family and friends. We're lucky to be able to afford to do that, and that's largely because we don't have to pay rent on a house. We're in NSW, semi-rural.

Rent is vicious out here, as are house prices - we're near the motorway to Sydney though, so that probably pushes local prices up.

Food is generally more expensive, as are cars, clothes, and most things except petrol. DOn't get me started on the full price of books! Although there are discount places to go where you can get them more reasonably priced, or even online places like Book Depository.

School system - well I don't know about the other states, but I do know that in NSW you go to the school in whose catchment you live. It is possible to apply to go to a different school, but you will be refused if the other school is near their number limit, or in their "buffer zone" (they must keep 2 spaces free per class for children who move into the catchment area). In my experience so far of the school, the community is much more fluid than in the UK (although it might be more fluid there now too) - so there is a fair amount of people leaving and new ones arriving through the year. Might just be our area though.
If your catchment school is good, that's all fine because you WILL have a place there, they have to take your child. But if it's shit, then you're stuck with it unless you can get a place in an out-of-catchment area school, which is much harder than it used to be.

The Hague convention will kick in after a certain period of time, I think it's 6 months, but I could be wrong. After that, your children are said to be in "regular residence" (I think that's the phrase) in Australia and you won't be able to remove them back to the UK without your DH's permission. There are a number of people I've met over here who have come over with the husbands, either British or Australian husbands, who have then broken up with them and been stuck here, as Iborgia (and some others) said.
Make no mistake, it's a LOT of pressure moving here - you have to adjust to the new place, the new people, new laws, finding your way around the different systems and ALL of this without any family back-up. I was lucky - I had MIL but also I had a 20mo baby, so I went out and found playgroups and made friends that way. It can be quite hard to do without a job though.

The weather - ah, the weather. If you're a sun and heat fan, then yes, this is a great place! If you're not, not so much. I'm not. I hate the summer. It's too fecking hot, I can't move without sweating, I hate it. I can't go outside for most of it except for short trips. Dreams of beach-front houses - these are the most expensive and the least likely that you will be able to access. There are a lot of coastal towns, of course, and the beaches are generally better than the UK too - but when it's really hot, it's a bit much.

Cockroaches - everywhere. Big ones. We have an old house though so it's harder to keep the feckers out. Spiders don't bother us, but the roaches...

Culture - wouldn't worry about it unless you're desperate to be going to a different stage play every week, or new high brow art museum or fashion show, or something. There's plenty of culture here - it might not be the same, but it's here. Some things aren't so different from the UK - some things are similar but not quite the same, and some things are very different.

But I would say the hardest bit is being so fucking far away from family and lifelong friends all the time, and knowing that if there was any kind of crisis, the chance of me getting home in time is very low. 9 years down the track, that still cuts me - more now, in fact, as my Dad gets older and older. Skype helps but it's not the same. Bring on the teleport machine! But until then, my advice to you is to say No.

OP come back and tell us what he has done towards his visa. If he is not in the right category, he will not even be able to apply so that is his dream done and dusted and an argument you don't need to have.

It's not easy to immigrate to Australia.

This is also true, and my understanding is that it's a LOT more expensive now to get the visas than it was 10 years ago when I did mine!

They found the casual racism horrifying and the lack of culture depressing.

'Horrifying', you say? Right. Do you not see the irony in that statement @LakieLady?

By saying there's 'no culture' in Australia, you're being deeply racist. Think about it, for more than one minute. It's just so offensive.

And if your friends (given you've not even set foot there yourself, if I'm not mistake), couldn't find anyone to have a conversation with on something other than sport - I mean, I don't really know where to start. Clearly they weren't getting out much at all.

And no, I'm not an Aussie.

Thumbwitches, it sure is! IIRDC my visa is about four times more expensive than it was six years ago!

@StUmbrageinSkelt he's been looking into it, considering what the best route to take would be and wants to see an agent about it but he isn't going to apply yet if I'm not on board

Sorry, but I agree with those posters who say you've strung him along somewhat.