To ask if anyone has a vile 13 year old DS?

[Marie0]

Sorry to post here - extra traffic

I suspect my DS 13 may have ADHD. We are awaiting an ed psych assessment and are also waiting to see Cahms.

He has control issues and his anxiety is masked with angry outbursts.

School are trying to support him by tweaking his timetable so he only has lessons with teachers he gets on with (he has a massive problem with authority and therefore there is a clash when teachers try to control him - he is always sent out for being disruptive). It has recently come to light he has 'a learning difficulty' - will get more details when I meet with school soon.

He is aggressive and smashes things up in the house and has been violent towards me and DH, on occasion we called the police and he wasn't phased at all when getting a 'telling off'- maybe next time we should press charges so he can spend the night in the cells- although I feel torn as he is only 13 and I really don't want him to have anything on record which may impact his future.

He has just thrown my clothes airers across the room because he couldn't find his jacket quick enough as he wants to go out.

He doesn't respond to 'normal' discipline methods such as taking his stuff away and grounding him. He can't seem to grasp consequences despite continually re-inforcing boundaries.

Don't really want to go down the route of medication.

I don't react to him in when he's in a rage and I do try and talk to him when he's calm but he just doesn't want anything to do with me, just tells me to 'go away'.

Anyone relate to this? Really interested to hear from any one who may have experience? Really want to help him but don't know how he's only 13 :(

Many thanks
Marie

I’m glad you’ve apologised YTSH, that was decent of you.

I'd look at pathological demand avoidance, which is a very rare form of autism.

www.autism.org.uk/about/what-is/pda.aspx#

YeShite - Lol I'm sorry I'm such a knob :)

I honestly thought that thread was deleted, I was in a right old mood when I wrote it and immediately realised it was a mistake - I honestly didn't know there were people commenting on it!

@Marie0

Honestly OP, I think it would help if you could give us an honest and open explanation of what you think about this.

In your previous thread, you were adamant that this was all the schools faults and that it is not your job to sort anything out or even realise there is a problem. In this thread however, you are trying to come across as a concerned, caring, involved parent.

That makes it hard to give advice, it makes it hard to figure out your parenting style and family dynamic.

So, how about you just tell her what you really think. And what have you tried. Have you always read with him everyday, eaten together at a table, spent time as a family, limited his screen time etc. Or has he been left to sort himself out; No bed time stories, as much screen time as he wants, dinner alone infront of the tv?

What's the family dynamic? Figuring out if the style he's been raised in plays a part in this might help. It will also give us a way to find changes for you to make moving forward.

This is not about finding ways to judge you, or make fun of your parenting. I'm a busy single mum and sometimes I do have to give my kids their dinner and let them watch tv so I can finish work etc. So don't try to change how you come across to prevent negative responses. Just lay it out honestly and you will get help.

I realise that, I’m sorry. You’re not a knob, I am. MN haven’t deleted my posts yet but I’m hoping that’s because it’s Saturday night and they’re busy.

Aira, yes thank you, some other posters have suggested PDA in another thread and I definitely think there are traits. I think the difficulty with DS is that is has such a variety of behaviours and issues going on it is really complex. I find myself asking is this just normal teenage behaviour, and then when he's so extreme I realise of course it's not.

The problem with authority rings alarm bells for me and the truth is I just don't know how to handle him.

On the one hand I feel there should be consequences for his bad behaviour then then the professional advice I get tells me to just focus on the good behaviour - which of course is very minimal. I just feel utterly powerless with him and I feel I am in effect ignoring all the bad stuff, which is not good parenting.

On the one hand I feel there should be consequences for his bad behaviour but if he can’t grasp consequences (as you said in your OP) possibly due to a disability then whether you feel there should be consequences isn’t really important.

If you are using PDA strategies then he will end up having natural consequences for behaviour anyway.

The good behaviour can be minimal, so if he shouts when he gets cross but doesn’t swear at you, later on you could say ‘I appreciated you not swearing earlier, I could see you were really angry, thank you’.

space

I am a concerned parent. I was upset yesterday and I shouldn't have blamed the school.

I admit we are a completely dysfunctional family, however I started iff with good intentions. When my boys were little I wanted nothing more than to be the best Mum ever - and I still do. I did read with them and try and set routines for homework bed time etc.

When DS2 was about 3 (DS1 was 5) we realised things were not quite right at one of his HV appointments - he wasn't talking, making any attempt to interact etc. over the next few years it became apparent that DS2 had a few health issues including a stigmatism in his eye, he had only one kidney functioning and he had a problem with his legs - there were bending inwards - not of these things were very serious thankfully but of course there were lots of hospital trips, speech therapy, OT appts, hospital scans etc. When he was 7 (DS was9) he got a diagnosis of autism.

DS1 was always really highly strung, I was aware that a lot of my time was consumed with DS2 and was very conscious to make time for DS1 as I didn't want him to somehow feel left out.

All the while DS1 was playing up in school not enjoying it and becoming more difficult. I think we (me DH. teachers etc put it down to a phase).

Problem was his behaviour (DS1) just escalated very gradually and got worse and worse. . My DH and I have racked our brains as to why DS1 behaves the way he does - may be subconsciously he felt we 'favoured' DS2 - which of course is not true, but maybe in his mind that's how he feels.

Things really went downhill when he started high school and refused to do homework - he told me he was doing it in school.

This is where we are now, unfortunately I haven't managed to implement the routine such as meal times - he does go to bed by 10 however so that's something.

I probably should have spent more time with his school stuff and reading but I admit I got caught up in all the drama of my life and I let it slip.

My DH has also had to give up work in the last few years due to fibromyalgia and I now work full time to ensure we have enough money.

Although DS2 has autism, he is very manageable as we have his routine down to a tea which of course is very important. He's opposite to DS1, so affectionate and loving. He in some ways has saved me, he's absolutely lush I wouldn't change anything about him - apart from the fact he poos himself everyday as going to the toilet takes up too much of his time lol :)

That's where I'm at - just a desperate parent who wants to try and make things right again, but don't know how.

I think Marie that seeking dx for your son is crucial, it will dictate how you approach everything else.

It’s also the common theme to all your threads, so I’m guessing the most important and biggest part of why things are tough.

If he doesn’t understand cause and effect or the impact of his actions, no consequence in the world will change them.

BUT with different diagnoses there are a range of coping strategies (for him and you) and ways to manage behaviour specific to the diagnosis.

For example, my kids are autistic so I take a different approach to things in order for them to understand. I take a different approach with my NT niece and nephews based on how they understand.

Ironically I’m probably explaining all of this really badly, but the key is diagnosis. It’s not a magic wand but it does help you to find a positive way to move forward.

Also, not to throw it at you, quite the opposite in fact, you mentioned unresolved grief in another thread and that could be part of it. Has he had counselling for that? DS1 had tailored counselling in school run by the hospice which cared for my mum, and it really helped.

I’ll try and find the name of it, haven’t managed so far.

Yes thank you Kardashian, I am trying to implement changes such as wording things differently - always giving him choice and giving him the illusion that he is in control.

I think my problem is I need to learn perseverence, I'm not very good at that. I get pissed off and go to another room and I need to believe it will work if I continue with the strategies over and over

this is it!

It’s only in Scotland but if you’re elsewhere in the UK there might be an alternative?

YeShite - thank you, sorry what is dx?

Yes I totally agree with needing different strategies. I already try and use different wordings and try and give him choice where possible as control is very important to him.

I'm not sure about the unresolved grief - at the time I minimalised it and carried on as normal - may be this wasn't the right the to do. I think it added to his problems but I really don;t think it was the cause as things started going bad before then.

I know I said on the grief thread that I felt I should have dealt with this at the time and I felt terribly guilty - I still do to a degree, but I am not sure counselling now will be of any use - surely too much time has gone by and won't it just be opening up old wounds?

Thanks for you post

I'm not sure about the unresolved grief - at the time I minimalised it and carried on as normal - may be this wasn't the right the to do. I think it added to his problems but I really don;t think it was the cause as things started going bad before then

Don’t feel guilty, honestly. After my Mum died it took everything I had to put one foot in front of the other, and I tried my best but didn’t always get it right. School organised his counselling thank god.

Sorry dx is shorthand for diagnosis. I see your other son has an ASD diagnosis, have you tried any strategies for that with your elder son?

Or if it’s something else other strategies may be better.

I do hope you find something that helps you all OP.

I don’t know about time passing, honestly, you’d be the best judge of that knowing him as you do. I guess I just brought it up because it’s something that resonates for my own children, and, like you, I feel terrible guilt for not being the Mum I wanted to be immediately afterwards.

If you are working on implementing strategies to reduce his anxiety, you really have got to persevere to see any improvement (and you might not actually see an improvement, just be stopping things from getting worse which is a fantastic achievement but can be demoralising). For now, if you can keep the behaviour on a level and not escalating you are doing really well.

My lovely DD1 has a revolting DS aged 13.

ah thank you - guilt is such a horrible feeling it eats you up. I need to try and move away from that.

I so badly want to parent him correctly but it's harder than I thought - having always been a perfectionist I am not used to failure.

Unfortunately as DS1 and DS2 are like chalk and cheese I will need to find a new set of strategies which will work for DS1. DS2 is easy - he will do anything for a packet of white chocolate cookies from sainsburys :)

Thanks again for taking the time to post.

I so badly want to parent him correctly but it's harder than I thought - having always been a perfectionist I am not used to failure

Totally understand that! It’s clear you want to help him and have his best interests at heart, and that’s parenting.

Finding strategies is the tough bit, once they begin to work life will get easier.

I wish any of mine were laid back! People assume it’s easy because we’re all autistic but we’re all very different and on a bad day that can be a real issue!

Does he respond to visuals? I know they can be used with younger kids but I’m wondering if there’s a preteen equivalent, for communicating emotions and laying out routines, what comes next, what’s expected of him (particularly in new situations) that kind of thing?

yes it's definitely finding the strategies to gain back control.

My priority is to get him to talk - doesn't have to be me - anyone would do! If we knew what was going on inside his head maybe we could help him manage his feelings.

will definitely look into teenage equivalent of visuals - hadn't thought of that -

Must be very challenging in your household - when you say 'We're all autistic' how many of you are autistic?

Would writing letters help? Could he write/dictate it?

I am, and all 3 kids (DS1, DD and DS2). DP is NT. Mostly we’re all ok, sometimes it gets interesting and I’m grateful we all have our own wee hidey holes in the house to retreat to DD and I in particular are a mirror image of each other (she’s 5) and I think her teenage years will be interesting!

We love each other fiercely, and we’re far from perfect but with the right support for the bairns and working together we’re getting there.

Aw yes I can imagine there's never a dull moment in your house :)

I will ask him in the morning about writing letters - never thought of that - not sure he will - he doesn't really like writing but he used to enjoy drawing, This may be a good way to get him to express himself in a positive way

There’s real merit in art therapy! It helped DS1 a lot after Mum, he was able to express himself by painting and drawing.

I wouldn’t change us for the world, but I get that we’re not for everyone

llangenneth

I am sure there is lovely, wonderful human being underneath the revolting 13 year old boy - just have't seen it emerge yet :)