My son was assaulted at school and I don't like how the school handled it. But AIBU?

[ButAIBUtho]

My son is in year 7 so only a couple of weeks in.
Two things that could alter my reasonablility in what happened today
1- we're fresh out of Primary school, perhaps this is the norm for secondary school
2- I was horrifically bullied at school and beaten up regularly, I've no doubt this makes me extra jumpy with issues of bullying that may arise.

Today I get a phone call from pastoral at 1pm. They say my son has been punched in the face after he got into a 'fracas'. But they put ice on it and he's gone back to class.

That's it.

I ask is he ok? What happened? Who did it? How did the fight start? Is he ok to walk home? Will it happen again? How old was the kid?

They say they don't know. They just deal with first aid and to call his house.

I'm panicking because DS is a really gentle soul and quiet, least aggressive child I know and his kindness has always been pointed out by teachers at primary (again false sense of security?!).

So I'm calling the school for over an hour trying to get through to someone to find out wtf happened, and is my kid ok? I mean, aside from the ice on the cheek?!

Someone finally calls me back about 2.15pm, I ask what happened? They said they just spoke to my son and he got into a fight and the other child hit my son in the face, but they will get statements from everyone and find out what happened.
I asked if it would happen again? Is my son ok to walk home? Who is the other child?

They can't tell me who the kid is and they are going to investigate it.

I ask them if I can come and collect DS as I still don't know if he's ok (I wouldn't be if I'd just been punched!) and they said yes.

So I go down to the school, see DS waiting for me. I ask to speak to someone about what's happened.
In the mean time I talk to DS, I can see the bruises on his face (I've since taken photos) and ask him what happened.

DS was with a friend, child X called friend a pussy. My DS said "why are you calling him a pussy?"
Child X asks DS if he wants a fight? DS said no, Child X swings and DS. DS pushes him away, Child X falls down. He then gets up and punches DS 5 times in the face, a teacher pulls him off.

The friend DS is with has a black eye, earlier in the week Child X punched him and he's got massive bruising (DS says "worse than mine") and it looks terrible.

Half an hour passes and a woman saunters over. We go into a room, and she says "what do you want to know?"

I say I wanted to know what happened. DS has since told me, he also told me another child has been hurt. What happens next? Will the kid be punished? Will DS be ok to walk home safely in future?

She says "well first of all, your child got himself involved with this altercation. And I'll get statements from the adults who witnessed it to find out exactly what happened."

She's really rude and defensive with zero people skills. I'm feeling myself getting a panicky frustration and anger (I expect I was BU?!).

This conversation goes round in circles and I get absolutely no answers. I don't know how the child gets punished, I don't know how they stop it happening in future, I don't know if he's ok to walk home alone or if this kid is going to do it again.

All I know is they'll be getting statements.

I ask how the child will be punished? She said it depends what the statements say and what your son did.

She did admit that one of the teachers statements married up with what my son had said.

She was rude, abrupt and accusatory.
As I left I said she needed to work on her people skills. She said "I could say the same to you."

I walked out and just sat in the car and cried.
I'm a nurse if a child is hurt and a parent is irate, I do my best to calm them down and help them. That's my job.

Today my child was hurt, I wasn't reasurred in any way shape or form (on the contrary, the kid has form for assaulting children) and I've know idea if they contact me to discuss it further or what the fuck happens.

I'm just baffled. Is this normal for secondary?!
Is this how it is handled?

He was repeatedly punched ffs.

Ionacat
At the last school I worked at, either the Head of Year or any free senior member of staff would have taken statements straight away and both your DS and child X would have been pulled out of lessons to write separate statements and it would have been dealt with there and then. (Usual to go and find any staff who had witnessed it to get a quick verbal report before getting it in writing.)
That would the norm and ideal in my school too.
But if you've been in schools you'll know that there are days where some members of SLT are out (especially if you're in a school that still has a reasomable sized SLT and not a whole football team doing who knows what for their money!), not all heads of year are non teaching, often the pastoral SLT lead is in meetings off site for the LAC reviews or in with parents etc, the staff they require statements from are teaching and it's not ok to interrupt a lesson to pull the teacher out quickly to get information (if it's a formal statement the teacher needs time to write everything down properly, not quickly say a few snippets whislt their class waits).

Getting a proper procedure done is better all round. It might be that with full procedure the school can push for fixed term exclusion, but they'd probably struggle to justify an exclusion based on one child involved said X, the other said Y and we had a quick chat witj Mrs Smith when she was half watching 9 set 5 on a Friday afternoon.

BoneyBackJefferson
Very true
I have been assaulted by students, had parents blame me for their child's violence and had them back in my lesson the next day.

From the sound of it, school procedure isn’t just failing the children.

I disagree with coldrain completely:
"your child was not assaulted.

Your child started a fight

your child is likely to be excluded, I should imagine."

Errr no. He didn't start it. He was assaulted. He shouldn't be excluded.

YANBU

Punching 5 times in the face is very aggressive behaviour and the school should take action especially if this is the second incident in a week.

The teacher doesn't know your son though and needs to be seen to be objective by investigating thoroughly. But replying that you also need to work on your people skills in a situation where you're obviously upset is pushing it imo. She's being paid to supervise children and support parents where necessary.

Another one here reading with incredulity. OP I am sorry that you and your son have had this experience and you have my sympathy.

I would have been outraged by the school’s response. Yes, you have to wait for the outcome of their inquiries. Yes, they should have treated you with due respect in the meantime. That means letting you know that they understand your distress at your son being hurt, and that they will get to the bottom of this incident and deal with it fairly and well.

I am sorry too that you’ve faced some of the posts on this thread. Many of them are accusing and inappropriate in my opinion. Please take what is useful from this thread and try to ignore what isn’t.

You sound like a supportive and thoughtful mum. All the best to you and your son for dealing with an awful incident.

Is there a parent liaison at the school? You could request a meeting with parent liaison and pastoral care (usually form teacher) and head of year or deputy to discuss this calmly once they have investigated and got statements.
Is is quite feasible that shitbag has already been excluded for previous assault and has now returned.
You have no right to be told his name. However, once you have closely analysed the punishment escalation process, you can ask them to confirm if he has been subject to sanction at x level. They may or may not tell you but they should ensure a clear message is put out.
Getting statements from adults that witnessed, that is an interesting one. If they saw this brewing, they should have acted immediately to stop it going bad. By the sound of it, the adult witnesses can only tell what happened at the point of boil. Hmmm.
You can ask what safeguards they are putting on place to protect your son and the other child from repeat performances.
You can also use the opportunity to explain that you were obviously distressed and did not feel that the lady's ending comment was appropriate or professional.

He hit someone who he said was swinging

what does he mean by "swings"

there was no contact from the "swing" according to the Ops son.

The first contact was from the OP's son.

he has given his mother all sorts of reasons why he was justified in making the first contact.

he said this boy has already hurt someone else - this is totally irrelevant, even if true, and nothing more than hearsay, and is no justification for physical contact

he said this boy walked up to him and his friend and insulted his friend out of nowhere. unlikely, and irrelevant. he said this boy asked him to fight. unlikely and irrelevant. He said the other boy was "swinging" - meaningless.

HE THEN ADMITS HE MADE THE FIRST CONTACT - and that first contact, which he calls a "push" was enough to put the other boy on the floor.

I've spent decades unpicking this sort of situation with parents. I can tell you what the other boy has said

"butAIBUtho's son was clling me a pussy, and threatening me, and when I shouted back and waved my arms around a bit he punched me without any warning, and knocked me flying"

not only as nothing the OPs son said excused him from starting a fight, which he admits he did, but even though he is clearly in the wrong, even from his own account, he clearly knows exactly what to say and how to say it to persuade his mum he was the innocent party.

She has gone barging into the school with unrealistic demands, causing disruption, being rude, taking her son out of lessons, taking staff out of lessons -

I can predict what will happen, with some degree of certainty.

Both boys will be excluded for fighting. The investigation will find the OPs son was in the wrong, maybe the other boy too, maybe not, although I suspect both boys to some extent, although the ops son more for starting it.

the schools will warn staff never to be alone with the OP again which will remain on her record, with or without her getting a formal warning, and will inconvenience her for the rest of her son's time at school.

The op will continue to believe her sons version of everything that ever goes wrong in his life, for some years yet, even possibly changing school at some point, then being outraged that the next school is equally full of teachers who pick on her son and don't like him....

eventually, the scales will fall from her eyes, and she will start parenting more effectively, and things will go better from then on.

I don't know that this is what is going to happen, I maybe wrong, I would be prepared to be surprised, but everything the OP has said point this way.

of course, unlikey to ever know, because the OP is not going to come back next week and admit her son has been excluded because other witnesses have all named him as the aggressor, even if that is what happens...

First contact?

Fgs cold

Firesuit
As I left I said she needed to work on her people skills. She said "I could say the same to you."

OK, if she had said that to me, that would be the exact instant when I would have decided to (a) call the police and (b) sue the school.

firstly, you want to go to the police fine, its within your rights.

Second, What are you suing the school for?
If the staff member was abusive then the OP was too.

You would have to be an idiot to even contemplate it.

He hit someone who he said was swinging

He pushed someone away who was swinging a punch at him. It’s quite clear. At least it is if you have basic English comprehension.

The OP’s son acted in self defence.
The other boy then assaulted him.

What do I have to say to make it clearer!

The Ops son, with all the spin and self-justification he can possibly muster, ADMITS he started the fight!

Jamiefraserskilt
Parenr/family support workers are really uncommon in secondary. No school I've worked in has had one. The closest we had was a full time safeguarding officer to deal with the sheer number of disclosures, known families, multi agency meetings we had at a former school.

I agree with you that it may well be the child who is going around the place assaulting others is already in the firing line. In some respects that means the school have to be even more clear that they have followed due process because if they start going down the route of multiple fixed term exclusions, managed moves, time in a PRU etc then their case has to be good and everything in order.

Sometimes as staff I've wondered how the hell some students haven't gone yet (and grumbled at the impact on other children) and then usually there'll be a turning point and kapow they've gone. There's often more going on behind the scenes than can be reasonably shared.

i can tell you what the other boy has said

A teacher has backed up the OP’s DS’s account.

coldrain2018 no, the other boy swung first. An act of aggression, which (acting legally) OPs son responded to to protect himself and his friend.

It is you who misunderstands the legal concept of self defence, which is outlined upthread.

Your reply to her "say the same to you" response should have been "however I am not here in a professional capacity nor being paid a salary to do so"

coldrain
maybe the other boy too, maybe not,

You have worked in schools and you don't think the other boy will be punished for punching someone 5 times? That's just ridiculous there nay be mitigation if the Op's son has omitted some information (and I agree he will have told the story on a way which paints him in a more positive light than perhaps is fair) but there is never a justification for repeatedly punching someone 5 times!!

The Ops son, with all the spin and self-justification he can possibly muster, ADMITS he started the fight!

How can I make it clearer? No he didn’t.

The other boy started it with a verbal assault followed by an attempt to punch the DS which was prevented with a defensive push.

I think you need to step back and calm down to be honest. Any decent school will be dealing with it but your expectations maybe need to change - a small primary school is likely to be able to respond more quickly to that type of incident; partly because they are smaller and partly because they have less of this kind of thing to deal with.

The reality is that you have probably delayed their investigation by turning up at school and demanding they speak to you - who ever they sent to speak to you was almost certainly involved in trying to sort out the issue so you've kind of suit yourself in the foot there.

Also (as a secondary teacher) please do not rely on information from primary teachers as the gospel on how your son will behave in secondary - I have to read the reports from our feeder primaries every year and I can assure you they sometimes bear absolutely not resemblance to that child once they meet different people!

Finally the fact your child had been sent back to class is your confirmation that he's okay - believe it or not pastoral staff are not heartless or careless and in my experience they would never return a child to class after an incident like this unless they were confident that they were fine.

I hope your DS is okay, and try to remember that a one off fight like this - in the first month of term whilst they are all bedding in and finding their feet - really is not necessarily reason to think that he is going to be bullied throughout his time there.

The idea that you could sue the school is ridiculous. We have a risk assessment for fighting. As long as there were members of staff on duty, they are not in breech of anything. Some of these posts seek to rile the op up just as much as the goady posts. Please, op. Re read my posts, and those of other HOYs and people who work in schools. Allow yourself the weekend to calm down and then approach the school again on Tuesday.

Right let’s try another way.

If you were at work, and someone with a known history of violence swung a punch at you, what would you do? Would you stand there? Push them back to protect yourself (as OPs DS did! He could have punched him but didn’t!)?

But it’s ok for kids to be assaulted?

This isn't like the driving rule where if you bump someone from behind, you are the one in the wrong. There's no 'first contact' rule. You are allowed to defend yourself from harm cold.

NotBU
And she was a cunt
Who the fuck normalises a brand new child getting assaulted

But - is your child OK ? I am the same as you abiut secondary school and bullying . And I don’t want to project it onto my DC !

But you are not BU . This should not happen

Big hugs . Complete shit

You can not equate an adult assaulting another adult with a child assaulting another child. It isnt the same.

YABVU
and you sound more than a little unhinged. calm down. if this is the only scuffle you child is involved with at school it will be a miracle!