AIBU to be gay and dislike the term LGBT

[BaitandSwitch]

Just that, really. Why do gay people have to be lumped in with trans people? As far as I see it my sexuality has nothing to do with trans issues.

[Edited by MNHQ]

I think it's time for LGB to reclaim itself as they've always been good bedfellows -said with deliberate irony- and for T to go off and find new letters of its own to snuggle up with. Given there are 26 letters in the alphabet, I'm sure T can manage that. But would say be cautious about E, R and F if T does not want to mix with the wrong crowd.

@Sniv
Do you think asexual people belong in LGBT spaces?

Non binary = most people in the whole world
What oppression have non binary people faced historically? Now around the world? What laws are there saying non binary people can be imprisoned or executed for eg?

Ditto asexual. Who beats up asexual people on the steet for being asexual? ie not walking around holding hands with someone else? No-one, is who. |What material oppression do they face?

The watering down of LGB into including anyone who wants to "ID" as a part of the group + the inclusion of fetishists is damaging.

Gay & bi people people still have material oppressions all over the world.

Unlike women who have dyed their hair blue, and men who like dressing up as my little pony to fuck. I suppose you could say the latter group is oppressed if you believe that fetishes should be displayed in public?

Trans people have a terrible time I'm sure but this is either:

Based in homophobia if they don't pass
Based in sex based discriminaiton / oppression if they do

Non binary = most people in the whole world

What do you mean? I thought it's when someone doesn't identify as any gender? So most of the world won't be that way?

Non binary means not fully identifying with femininity / masculinity / not feeling "100% woman"or "100% man"

Hardly anyone in the world matches 100% the stereotypes / expectations around the gender roel relevant for their sex.

You are thinking of agender >> no "strongly felt internal sense of gender ID"

I'd say that the vast majority of people in the world are trans, based on this. Either bigender / agender / non binary etc.

Give it 3 years there won't be a single "cis" child in any school in the country. "Cis" is not cool and furthermore means you feel like / want to be barbie or ken ie stereotypical ideas of men and women.

See >> parents who say "I knew my daughter was really a boy at age 2 she always wanted to wear boys clothes and play with trains".

eg

I have no internal sense of gender ID.
Therefore I am trans (if I beleived in genderism).

Thread ages ago on MN >> most women don't have this internal sense.
Is it something that men have more than women? The thing has arisen from trans poeple who by defiition have this sense. Has anyoen asked anyone else? The ASSUMPTION that everyone else has a "strong internal feeling" that their "gender ID" matches their sex is just that, an assumption.

The people first to argue against all this and still the loudest were radical feminists. Who also BY DEFINITION do NOT acccept our gender role, and are gender nonconforming to a lesser or greater extent. Many are lesbians >> heterosexuality is a core component of gender role.

Radical feminists have been saying, let men and women be whatever they want, get rid of these fucking restrictive boxes.

Then genderists came and said the boxes are awesome! I want into the other box, with you, No, you don't get to say it doesn't fit, you don't get to get rid of it.

Women who have said they have no sense of gender ID have been TOLD by genderists that they DO, and they are CIS, they are just too stupid to realise it. ie women don't know their own minds. So progressive.

@NotANotMan the plus in LGBT+ is usually assumed to include asexual, agender, non-binary, queer and intersex people too. If there's a group for LGBT+ people and someone feels like that label applies to them and the group is something they want to join, they should go ahead and do it.

So you'd be happy if pretty much everyone joined? And then obviously centred their own needs as heterosexuals? I don't believe I have a gender because gender is simply sex role stereotypes, am I agender?

Pretty much everyone is joining

Pride etc has got v corporate and generally homosexuality is a lot more accepted >> the original marchers were doing something incredibly brave, now it's much safer loads of people with no skin in the game want into the awesome sparkle fabulous (stereotype) of pride etc and it is open to all, anyone can be "queer".

Lots of people still see it as a slur obv

And are pissed off about the intrusion into their spaces of people who really have nothing to do with them.

Some want pride BACK. I have spoken to people at work with strong feelings on this.

No-one is going to punch you in the face in the pub because they have clocked you are asexual or like a bit of light bondage FFS.

There is so much appropriation going on at the moment it's nuts.

I mean no one can see those things.

Two men holding hands or two women, even just holding hands, is still a risk if you come across the wrong people.

I find it bizarre.

Homosexuality is still illegal in many countries.

Is asexuality illegal? ever been punishable by death?

no?

Honestly, in my experience, everyone out in physical LBGT+ spaces is there in good faith just trying to do what everyone else does - make friends, have a laugh, do group activities, have somewhere to get support, possibly meet a like-minded partner. They're not being trolled by people who knowingly aren't part of the community, or overrun by people trying to push a particular agenda.

The vast majority of members are still L, G and B anyway, by a huge margin. There is no need for gatekeeping.

When and why were intersex people included?

Did they ask to be?

It's very different to the rest which apart from trans are sexualities.

Did it come in around the same time as the T to legitimise the T? I know there is form for massive appropriation by the T of things that relate to intersex. And I know that Intersex people are fucked off with it to the point of asking to be left alone.

@sniv blunt question: would you sleep with/have a relationship with a person who had a fully functional penis and testicles, and liked to use it to penetrate you during sex?

And/or who maybe sported stereotypical masculine traits such as a beard/hairy chest etc. And who had a typical male physical build?

And would your answer change if they defined themselves as a hetereosexual man or they said they were a lesbian?

do gay men have to accept "gentleman clits" and to sleep with transmen ?

I've been told I'm Transphobic if I don't sleep with a trans man

Yes, Sniv, I'd be interested in your answer to this question too.

WTF is going on with Mumsent, seriously.

Me: "As a lesbian I've always found LGBT spaces that include trans people comfortable and safe. The only people who have made me uncomfortable by asking me invasive personal and sexual questions are other women and to my knowledge none of them have been trans."

Mumsnet: Invasive personal and sexual questions!
More Mumsnet: Yes, I want to hear too!

Yuck.

@ShotsFired @Prawnofthepatriarchy, the question you've asked me is so bizarrely specific that I will deign to answer: no, no and no.

But the way to ask what I assume you're asking without being a creepy fucker is to say "Hey, Sniv, do you think lesbians should have to have sex with people who have penises?" and I would say: no, because no one 'should' have to have sex with anyone. No one can tell me, you or anyone else who they should have sex with, and any person can decline to have sex with any other person for any reason they like.

This belief has never got me called transphobic in the real world, and I know and interact with a lot of trans people.

Anyway, I'm just not going to answer any more personal questions. They're not relevant and you've frankly creeped me out.

Men tell women who they can and can't have sex with all the time. Always have done.

If straight people are wrong to be [fill in the blank] then so are gay people.

To label me is to negate me, to quote a philosopher

This belief has never got me called transphobic in the real world, and I know and interact with a lot of trans people.

But a lot of other lesbians have been called transphobic and threatened because they don't want to sleep with transwomen. Do you understand that?

YANBU. I'm a lesbian. I used to volunteer for Stonewall FFS.

LGBTalphabetsoup makes my teeth itch and I'm incredibly thankful I did my coming out back in the 90s, not today.