AIBU in thinking British Gymnastics new guidelines are disadvantaging girls and putting them in danger?

[GColdtimer]

I have just seen the BG new guidelines on inclusion (here.

They go against all of their own safeguarding policies by saying that children should use the changing room of the gender in which they identify (so boys who identify as girls can use the girls changing room. Their own safeguarding guidelines state changing rooms should be single sex.

They then say if the girls don't like it they can go elsewhere. If an individual remains unhappy about a trans person using facilities appropriate to their gender identity, then they should make alternative arrangements

They also say the same for residential trips. And because privacy is of greatest important (although not for girls it would seem), a teenage girl (or her parents) may not be told she is sharing a room with a teenage boy (who identifies as a girl.)

This goes against all of their published safeguarding guidelines which says there should be single sex changing rooms, washing facilities and sleeping arrangements (for trips).

They also say children under 16 can compete in the gender they identify with. So boys can compete against the girls if they wish.

(Girls can also complete against boys but its highly unlikely they will).

Their guidelines on gender also, say Signs can appear at a very young age e.g. a child refusing to wear typical clothes of their gender or taking part in non- typical games. I'd better tell my short haired, trouser wearing, rugby playing niece that the leading governing body for one of the most popular sports for children believe she is actually a boy.

AIBU in thinking this is sexist and dangerous and BG should be held to account?

And girls everywhere are taught that their boundaries, their discomfort, mean nothing. Less than nothing - those feelings make them bigots. I despair!

"No one should have to justify why they don't want to share intimate spaces with a person of the opposite sex."

Reminded me of the fact that in fact women and girls are ALWAYS told they must explain themselves when they say no to men and boys
And the answer must satisfy the man / boy they are saying it to, otherwise they will carry on doing (whatever it is)

All those men who go on at you when you don't smile on the street when they say smile, won't fuck off in the pub when you don't want to talk to them etc.

Now they want into previosuly female only spaces and if we say no we dont' want you here we are told we have to explain ourselves, and if they don't deem our reasons good enough then they will ignore us and more than that, tell us we are mean

I have a 16 year old daughter and I'm pleased to report that things have not reached this level of lunacy in the US yet, but I'm fearful for the future.

Are you sure? You've already got young men winning women's athletics events over there.

Someone with a penis is not a female. Dear god.

"Because my dd doesn’t want to should be reason enough. The sensitivities of a transchild should not be placed as more important than another child."

I know someone else re-posted this but think it's worthy of re-repost!!

@twofalls, YANBU. this isn't the only area which will come under scrutiny - Girlguiding is as well.

Although our gymnastics club only has one changing room, with both boys and girls attending their single sex sessions at the same time so I wonder how they get round the single sex changing area issue.

Although perhaps this is my son's route into getting on the squad, given the club doesn't currently have a boys squad 'as there isn't the demand/coach to do it' but has several different girls squads.

MissConductUS wrote: I have a 16 year old daughter and I'm pleased to report that things have not reached this level of lunacy in the US yet, but I'm fearful for the future.

Yet, at a recent track and field meeting, the gold and silver in the girl's 100m went to transgender athletes.

Terry Miller and Andraya Yearwood swept the competition at the state championships for girls track and field.

Miller, a sophomore at Bulkeley High School, took first place in the 100 and 200-meter dash. Andraya, a sophomore at Cromwell High School, took second in the 100-meter dash.

The wins are not sitting well with everyone.

Miller and Yearwood are both transgender, and some say it's an unfair advantage and uneven playing field.

www.wkbn.com/news/national-world/transgender-track-stars-win-state-championship-ignites-debate/1238813951

Sounds like they have adopted some of their guidance from All Sorts as some of that is almost word for word bullshit.
Complain, send them a copy of T1ransgender trend guidance, ask them about what risk assessments they have carried out to ensure that their is no risk to girls either physically or psychologically if they are going to allow male bodied 16 year old boys changing with female bodied girls.

Really - girls aren't allowed to wear underwear ?? What is the rationale for that . I find that creepy and wierd

From the BG guidelines:

'The athlete must demonstrate that her total testosterone level in serum has been below 10 nmol/L for at least 12 months prior to her first competition...'

So really they are talking about pre-pubescent males who identify as female. Anyone into puberty would have higher levels of testosterone and not be able to compete in the female category.

I’d want to see any risk/impact assessments they have done. I’d also be asking to see any consultations undertaken.

So if the onus is on girls who find this uncomfortable to make other changing arrangements what next? If you have 12 girls moving into a 'third space' and only the 'transgirl' using the female changing will anyone fucking sit up and take notice or will they complain that the girls are being transphobic?

So, if 20 girls objected to a boy in their changing room, the 20 would have to make an alternative arrangement?

Really - girls aren't allowed to wear underwear ?? What is the rationale for that . I find that creepy and wierd

Panty lines. Same is true in dancing.

I don't find it creepy or weird. The leotard covers up the same area.

Signs can appear at a very young age e.g. a child refusing to wear typical clothes of their gender or taking part in non- typical games.

Oh gosh, I lived in jeans and loved climbing trees, skateboards and video games as a child. AND I played with Lego. AND I watched WWE (back when it was WWF), and had a poster on my wall of The Undertaker. Oh and I loved rock music and scifi. I also didn't like hockey or netball at school.

Don't tell me all this time I should've been a boy. Mind blown gymnastics board.

Nope, despite all the above, I always identified as female. Someone advising me at an impressionable teenage age that I may want to think perhaps I should really identify as male because of the above is a fucking stupid idea and frankly terrifying for future generations. I hope this kind of bollocks is done away with as DD grows up!

What's wrong with VPL on a child or anyone really.

I find it a bit creepy and weird (no pants rule) as well.

The makeup they often seem to put on little kids as well.

Sometimes it seems much more for the adult eye and esp with things females doing certain disciplines are expected to do.

Another topic though prob.

fairenuff tha is the IOC guidelines. The BG guidelines say this:

The current position in respect of U16 trans girls is that they should be able to compete in their affirmed gender in any female or mixed-sex domestic competitions subject to an individual case-by- case review,

I wore knickers when I had ballet lessons as a girl!

Is teh no knickers thing just for more professional ones?

Presumably the girls have to start shaving / waxing from puberty as well then?

As the mother of a gymnast, this is not ok with me. My DD worked damned hard to get to the level she's at, competing on a level playing field against other girls. How fair would it be for her to then have to compete against boys? As for sharing changing spaces, it's not about whether she is likely to be attacked (I don't think all transgirls are dangerous), it's about her right to privacy and dignity when getting changed. There's no way my daughter would feel comfortable changing in the same room as a boy, and why the hell should she?

FFS

a section in these new guidelines says that to protect the privacy and dignity of trans girls, all girls will be able to now wear shorts.

Because the privacy and dignity of the trans girls is the all-important thing then is it? Not the privacy and dignity of the natal girls? Typical!

If an individual remains unhappy about a trans person using facilities appropriate to their gender identity, then they should make alternative arrangements

How about "if an individual is unhappy about using facilities appropriate to their sex, then THEY should make alternative arrangements"

Or else - there could be a third space!

Oh no - silly of me - women and girls just budge up and stop being so whiningly transphobic.

So if your daughters decided they weren’t comfortable with a black/disabled/gay child sharing a room with them, that’d be fine?

Fairenuff wrote: So really they are talking about pre-pubescent males who identify as female. Anyone into puberty would have higher levels of testosterone and not be able to compete in the female category.

As PP say, BG is not necessarily abiding by IOC guidelines.

Nonetheless, it's plausible that they might be taking puberty-blockers (authorised or unauthorised). Even at 10nmol/L it's substantially higher than for girls in the comparable age group. The values below are given in different units (ng/dL) but there's a conversion tool: unitslab.com/node/136

As a general guide 10nmol/L is 288.42ng/dL. The average adult female testosterone range is 15-70ng/dL. Average adult male testosterone is 270-1,070ng/dL.

hormonesj15.imascientist.org.uk/2015/06/26/do-boys-and-girls-have-the-same-level-of-testosterone-till-puberty/

See www.healthline.com/health/low-testosterone/testosterone-levels-by-age#adolescence

No pinkyU of course that wouldn't be ok. Who said it would be. What is your point here?

I am so looking forward to these female-identifying boys doing certain disciplines like beam and asymmetric bars - apparatus which crunches on parts of the anatomy that is much more delicate in males . Or will the next move be to amend the traditional female apparatus so the lady-genitals aren't crushed?