AIBU to not actually like my 5 yo nephew?

[darksoy]

Just back from a family get together, two days with siblings and their children. In total 8 children ranging from 4 through to 11. Of these, 7 are absolutely delightful. Polite, friendly, play nicely together, engage with the adults, laugh, interact, don't ever seem to cry etc. etc. Basically really nice kids. However, there's a set of twins in the family who live abroad in Norway, boy and a girl (mum is from that way). They are 5 years old. The girl twin is adorable if a little bit shy. But she makes eye contact, smiles at you etc. And she seems to play nicely with the others. Her english is basic but she can understand english pretty well. Her brother however, I just can't warm to. Realise this is an awful thing to say about a 5 yr old, but I just find him so...cold. There's shy, and there's just plain rude, I think. He won't every really say hello or goodbye, or make eye contact. When I attempted to give him a 'fist bump' by way of saying goodnight (he wouldn't want a hug off me), he smashed his fist against my hand so hard it actually hurt; I was quite taken aback ( I didn't say anything, just laughed). I appreciate that five year old boys can be boisterous but in general he seems a to play with things a bit roughly. He also seems to cry a lot to get his own way, and it's like his parents are terrified of seeing him bored or unhappy. He seems to not say thank you either. ABIU to think that this child is spoiled, or is it too early to tell if he has more serious behavioural issues? It's the lack of engagement with others that I find particularly odd. Hate to sound so judgemental and I'm sure parents often do things for an easier life, fair play really, and I feel mean to dislike such a young child, but I really do dislike this child. Am I awful?!

Why do you feel this child you rarely see owes you anything? Theres another thread atm about a womans shy daughter being harrassed by so callef friends demanding her attention and calling her a madam. Same thing here. Just because the child doesnt want to talk/make eye contact doesnt make him cold and emotionless. And yes its bad form to compare twins personalities. I was a shy child who never made eye contact or even spoke. The fist bump sounds like he was trying to appease you. There should be a course on how to deal with shy children.

Not all shy children have ASD and not all children with ASD are shy.

He could be a completely different person next time you see him, OP, they change so fast at that age.

We were out recently with another family who have a 9,7, and 5 year old. The older two were lovely, 5 year old was whining and refused to speak to me as well. She wasn't like that last time we met up, it's just a phase.

You’re being a bit ridiculous . Stop focusing on what you think he lacks so much.

I am in broadly the same situation. One of my relatives children just isn’t very nice. I feel bad about even thinking it but I do. Their other 2 are delightful but there is something very cold and calculating about one. It makes zero difference to my life, and I’m sure they will change as they grow up but I have also thought about it. Just so you know you’re not alone!

My nephew wasn't particularly likeable at that age. He's alright now he's 12.

I think if you persist with being in the background but not forcing the issue, they eventually get used to you and come round.

YANBU - my 7 year old nephew gives me the creeps. He's been cold and uncommunicative with me (and others) since he was a baby. He gives the most evil stares that send chills down my spine but never says anything, even in response to a direct question. Not really keen on DC spending too much time with him! Decided a while ago it wasn't really worth the effort any more.

Wow I seem to have riled a lot of you. Not intentional. But given that I don't have children that's why I'm asking on here. that's not a terrible thing to do is it?! Am looking to you (mothers) for some advice but a lot of you are just plain rude, too! Also I still don't understand why it is not OK to expect a child even if only five years old to say the odd 'thank you', not necessarily to me, but in general. If I ever have children I would try and teach them the importance of this, manners do matter to me (and no I am not some stuffy, stiff upper lip type). Also this is not the first time I've spend several days in the company of this child. As far as I can tell he's always crying to get his own way, demanding things be done his way, sulking, not sharing toys etc.

He’s 5! That’s still very tiny. He doesn’t have to have asd just because he didn’t engage with you the way you wanted him to. Ds2 was an exceptionally shy and quiet child. He didn’t always say thank you he didn’t always make eye contact, he was sometimes a bit rough because he was little and hadn’t quite mastered that yet and he literally slid under the table on a visit to his ore-school before he started when an adult he didn’t know spoke to him.

He’s 12 now with a lot of support and encouragement from the people close to him he is still shy but has a quiet confidence now, uses manners because he realises it’s important now even though inside he still wants to curl up and hide. It’s just him and him and dd and ds2 have the same parents but those two are brimming with confidence and very different people and were very different people at 5.
You seem to want everyone to say ah yes he has asd but while he may he also may just be a very quiet, shy and overly sensitive child and the comparison to his twin sister is unfair they are different people with different personalities not all 5 year olds are the same.
You’re perfectly entitled not to like him, we can’t all like everybody but you seem to dislike him for not behaving how you want him to rather than him being unpleasant in any way.

You're seeing a snap shot. Don't over think it. All kids go through a stage where they are utter shites. He might be having a 'phase' or he might be a pain as a kid and a lovely adult. He may even have ASD but you are not in a position to diagnose or judge this. Kids are people - they are their own selves and some understand the 'hoops' that some adults set meaning by - eye contact, saying hello politely, engaging prettily, saying thank you every time, answering boring questions about school etc - and some just CBA and don't engage with this dynamic.

I find it really hard to warm to my husbands child. She has clearly been taught that if she puts on an insipid, little girl voice and whines a lot, she will be her own way. She is incredibly ungracious, hates when the younger children are doing something that could possibly encroach on her experience (Like sitting for 30 mins while the kids finish an activity before swimming etc.

If you ask her to do something she snorts and folds her arms.

She is a spoilt child, her school have even told the parents they think she has some developmental delay because of her inability to cope with anything that doesn’t directly benefit her. In actual fact she has two parents who throw money/stuff/ponies at her and revel in her girlishness. I’ve no doubt under different circumstances she would be complete normal but they have and continue to spoil her.

She drives me potty. I try and limit contact to once or twice a year

You're not being unreasonable by disliking this child.

You are being unreasonable by posting him about him on a forum in order to seek justification for your feelings.

HTH

YABU, he lives in Norway, hes well out of his comfort zone. Also he is 5 and if hes shy and not good at interacting maybe that's just who he is - problems or not. I was expecting you to say he was really naughty and spiteful - not shy and withdrawn.

As far as I can tell

Those are the key words here. You have very little information to go on. It’s most likely he has picked up on your dislike of him and he acts differently around you.

If you truly want advice from a mother I would suggest you refrain from the whole “I would do this/that/the other with my child”. Until you have been in the situation you have absolutely no idea what you would actually do.

Children are people with their own personalities, just like adults. You may or may not like them, which is fair enough and only human. YANBU at all

You said you wouldn't treat him any differently, and obviously as he gets older his personality may improve so that you warm to him. Let's hope so.

Pot calling the kettle black, @somanymistakes?!? No need to swear, is there? Am genuinely not trying to be provocative. I do realise that I am not in enough contact with him to truly know him all round, I'm only going on the interactions I have maybe four times per year. I really, really want to warm to him. And I am hopeful that as he grows up, I will do. But right now, I don't like him very much, because I mainly think he is spoiled, rather than having ADD or an ASD. But given that it has crossed my mind that he might have something else going on, i thought I'd mention it here, not to goad you all into anger or defensiveness, but to see if anyone could relate to this or had experienced similar. Am obviously not expecting an actual (armchair) diagnosis. pff.

Honestly, I can’t believe you’re getting such a flaming and such aggressive responses.

I thought it was normal to occasionally come across a child you disliked 🤷‍♀️ It doesn’t mean you’re a band person and it doesn’t (necessarily) mean they’re a bad kid.

YANBU to not particularly like a child. But YABU to take the behaviour of a 5-year-old so personally. I could tell instantly that you don't have children because rather than feeling sympathetic that he's so shy, you talk all about how "rude" he is to you and that he doesn't make eye contact. He's 5 years old!! Him not wanting to hug you is not a personal attack on you.

Kids go through phases. Maybe he's having a difficult time right now. It's best to remember he's just a child and you're supposed to be an adult. Your OP and subsequent posts make you sound very self-involved and childish, tbh.

And I'm not saying that because I'm riled up or anything like that. I'm just giving you the honest opinions you are presumably seeking.

"Some friends Welsh friends visting their half Swedish grandchildren were so shocked at the lack of please/thank yous. It doesn't seem to be a big deal over here in the Nordics."

You are aware that there isn't a word for "please" in Swedish? Which rather explains why Swedish children don't use it. Otoh Swedes may well be taken aback at the lack of "varsågod"- which is another polite word we use a lot.

Different cultures have different ways of signalling that "I am a polite person who cares about your feelings": words, body language etc. It is extremely likely that your Welsh friends in visiting Sweden have offended against these local customs in a trillion ways. My Swedish mother has certainly been known to mutter about the lack of manner of the British, not least of British children.

When I first arrived in the UK as a child, the thing that really threw me was that British children didn't seem to care about curtseying and bowing when introduced to their elders, which was absolutely de rigeur in Sweden at the time. It looked to me like these British youngsters had no respect for adults at all.

Reminds me of my PIL, who used to see the kids only a few times a year, on visits, and then make comments about their upbringing based on their behaviour in a strange environment, with strange people, strange food, strange bedtime in a strange bed.

He is five. What were you like at five? Just like you are now, or a little bit different?

I mainly think he is spoiled

Surely his twin sister would be “spoiled” too if it was down to bad parenting?

Tbh I wouldn’t expect a fist bump or high five from a 5yo boy to do anything other than take my hand off so I think the other boys in your family are less typical in that respect!
As for the lack of manners, rudeness, difficulty with socialising - does he maybe struggle with English more than his sister? I’d be reluctant to blame parenting if his sister seems ok - unless the parents treat them noticeably differently.
Of course he could have a behavioural issue. But I don’t think you can conclude that from observing a 5yo in an unfamiliar country with people he doesn’t know well interacting in his second language.

Oh, and they are German, and were worried that the kids were shy about shaking hands with them when they arrived. That's the thing German children have to learn.

He’s not just some random kid though he’s a nephew. I mean people are saying they dislike cold children but these posts sound colder.

But no not riled up in any way. Just don’t focus on his behaviour so much. See if you can find another, maybe gentler way to engage with him.

It sounds like you don't have kids OP? Sorry, if I've got that wrong.
Kids go through phases of behaviour as they grow - it's just part of growing up.

They can be vile for a few days or weeks (as if had a brain transplant), then go back to being quite lovely again. He could be going through a phase. You could meet him in fifteen years and find him utterly charming and polite, so best not to judge him too soon.

Also, if kids seems to have anger inside them (as your nephew seems to, from your description), there is usually a reason for that - created by adults. He could have been spoiled, or feel slighted, or is going through a hard time.

My uncles and aunty's often talk about how I cried a lot when I was young, and got irate about things. And guess what, no-one knew the hell I was going through at home. I had loads of stress-related issues due to my selfish parents. And I've turned into a well-adjusted, nice person (?!)

You just never know what goes on behind closed doors...