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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder why you would say 'No' to student doctors/nurses helping/observing your care?

540 replies

Whatsnextforus4 · 10/09/2018 11:46

DD has been quite poorly in hospital with bronchiolitis. She's on the mend now and We can go home today.
Since we've been in hospital the care has been fantastic were so so appreciative of the nhs.
We've been asked alot if junior doctors and student nurses can help and observe our daughters care and obviously have said yes. 4 doctors checked her over for discharge today and while it took longer it was 4 sets of ears and eyes ensuring all was ok all overseen by a qualified doctor.
DH got talking to a nurse and she said alot of people do refuse to let them in.
AIBU to wonder why anyone would decline as those are our future doctors and nurses and they will never learn if they can't see and do ALL of the illnesses and problems that they will have to deal with. You can only learn so much from a book.

OP posts:
evilharpy · 11/09/2018 22:24

I was having a very bad time indeed during the early days after having a baby. The HV turned up one day with a student in tow, having not asked first or given me any warning. I was a mess. I sent the student packing.

Whether I said yes to a student would really depend on what was happening. I had a male student doctor at the birth despite my birth plan saying no students, I wasn’t asked and was in too bad a state to object. As it turned out he was more compassionate than anyone else involved.

I have brilliant veins that are easy to find and bleed profusely, and no fear of needles, so would be happy to let a student do a blood test or cannula.

Gynae stuff would be a no, I’m afraid.

TheCherries · 11/09/2018 22:38

Yes I have done myself. My premature baby was born on the first ever day all junior doctors nationally started work on the same day.
I first of all had one approach me to do the new born baby check on her and declared that one of her hands indicated she could have a syndrome and the other did not. So he would go away and read up if she had the syndrome again. Never to be seen again but left in 24 hour flux of what the syndrome was. It turns out suspected Downs when I enquired repeatedly, which the midwife went away to find out what was happening and she dismissed it as a stupid muttering of someone uninformed.
Then on the same day another junior doctor mutilated my premature daughter’s hand attempting to take blood. I found out on his 8th attempt that he had only ever tried on a marigold washing up glove before.
She was rushed into the higher dependence department to be cared for after that and I insisted no one but a fully qualified and experienced daughter was going to touch or examine my daughter again during our stay in the hospital.
I have been happy to been seen by a junior doctor in the gp surgery, however there are limits to what level of care I would sanction a junior doctor giving care having seen he actions that day and listening to family who are doctors and their tales of their training since.

MamaHechtick · 11/09/2018 22:44

I have an odd disability, student doctors are very curious about it.
I was in hospital as a toddler with a nasty chest infection. The Dr asked if my parents would mind the trainee drs coming with him to look at me, my parents thought that he meant about my chest infection, only to their absolute horror to witness the Dr and trainee drs pulling my arms and legs about and talking only about my disability rather than the chest infection. After this they never let any trainee's in to observe.

I made the same mistake as an adult and exactly the same thing happened, they weren't interested in my complaint but instead my disability. Again, since I've never consented to any trainee's.

Rainatnight · 11/09/2018 22:55

Mama bravo to your parents, I'm so glad they stood up for you.

onegiftedgal · 11/09/2018 23:10

I was rushed into hospital when I was younger with malaria. The very nature of the disease is that you can be like the girl in the exorcist one moment and perfectly normal the next.
Overlooked in A&E for hours even though I'd described all of my symptoms and that I'd been abroad etc. Main doctor told me to just go home. Just before I was collected, a student doctor asked if he could take a new batch of bloods as he had some suspicions.
Lucky he did - an ambulance was sent to fetch me at 3am as apparently, if not, I probably would have been dead by morning. Not sure what happened to the main doctor but the student one came to see me when I was back in the real world a week later. He said my parents had happily given the OK for students to observe me - 30 of them from the tropical diseases clinic round my bed when I came out of the fever! A very surreal moment indeed. The student doctor is now my husband ☺

Jenb2104 · 11/09/2018 23:15

I had a fairly complicated pregnancy at times and was often asked if I was OK with students being involved. I didn't have a problem with it. I had 2 young students each take a turn to examine my bump before my csection and there were students in the room throughout the procedure. They've got to learn somehow.

SusanneLinder · 11/09/2018 23:22

Yaay to Students! A student nurse delivered my last baby. I looked like shit, and her next placement was at my house with the midwives and she didn't recognise me.
A student doctor saved my daughters life as she had been dismissed by several doctors ( inc our GP), by people telling her that she had viral infections or a migraine when she constantly complained about headaches and blurred vision. Asked if he could send her for a CT scan. She had an aneurysm!
I am biased though, I have 2 nurses in my close family.

TheCherries · 11/09/2018 23:41

What a lovely ending Onegidtedgal

nonplussedinouterspace · 12/09/2018 00:04

Onegifted!!!

penisbeakers · 12/09/2018 00:05

I always say yes because practical experience is important. Everyone has to start somewhere.

Sharingtheload · 12/09/2018 07:55

I usually say yes but for personal reasons it does depend on the sex of the doctor. I had a student midwife, she just observed.
I would probably say no if I was feeling quite vulnerable.

sallythesheep73 · 12/09/2018 09:36

I agree, how else do they learn?

The worst I had was a sexual health check up - I steeled myself to go, arrived, went in - not only was there a nurse AND a doctor but also a student doctor! I was horrified but so giddy by stress at that stage said I didnt mind and just gritted my teeth.

They are a Dr for heavens sake!

drspouse · 12/09/2018 09:39

I think there's a few of us on here who've had bad experiences with just talking to medical students while distressed, which suggests to me they need WAY more practice and guidance before being let loose even in non-invasive situations.

Tessabelle1 · 12/09/2018 10:12

@foralthesaints what if the qualified Doctor was the "wrong" gender? Would you refuse treatment in that case?

drspouse · 12/09/2018 10:22

@Tessa you mean sex, and yes, many people do ask for a doctor or nurse of the same sex as themselves for some conditions.

MrsRobert · 12/09/2018 10:25

I was happy to have a student midwife but I found out after my birth from my husband that I'd had a student put in my epidural. I didn't notice that someone was being instructed at the time. I was so annoyed because I'd been waiting hours for one and it didn't work. I'd put on my birthplan that I only wanted student nurses and no other observers but they didn't read any of it.

Pepper123123 · 12/09/2018 10:33

There are lots of reasons why someone might want as much privacy as possible when it comes to medical exams etc.

I'd encourage anyone to allow students in wherever they feel comfortable, but if they don't, I wouldn't blame them in the slightest.

Patients can feel very vulnerable in hospital, so being surrounded by a group of people discussing you can be quite intimidating to some.

This is especially true when the patient's ailment is an intimate one.

Sparklyfee · 12/09/2018 10:39

I let a team of paramedics watch me give birth! The room was jam packed and I was in a right mess after giving birth to my (transverse) bundle of joy (who tore me to shreds).

Hope it was educational for them

SnorkFavour · 12/09/2018 10:46

When I was having my first, it was an assisted breech delivery. The doctor first tried to cut me with enormous scissors without injecting pain relief. I said no and he rolled his eyes 'jokingly' while injecting me with local anaesthetic and said "she wouldn't have felt it at the height of a contraction", so i was already annoyed.

Then just as the actual baby was about to be delivered, around 4 or 5 people bundled into the room and stood looking at me, legs in the air, smiling and laughing excitedly together. I asked what 'that lot' were all doing in there and a tiny little woman nodded her head excitedly and clutched her hands together and said with a huge smile, "we're here to watch birth".

That was it for me. No introduction, no explaining who they were, no asking for my permission first and I assume they'd assumed that once again, with all the pain I was in (it was excruciating as well) and the chaos, I'd just allow it like they expected me to allow the cut with no anaesthetic.

To be fair, this was a long time ago but there was absolutely no way I was being pressured like this and I waved them all out with an, "oh no you're not" and that was that.

I understand that the birth was a more unusual one and therefore interesting, but had they asked permission and introduced themselves first, I may have allowed one or two to watch, but not four or five.

It was disgusting and I felt violated by both incidents. As it happened things went a little wrong and the room descended into chaos with doctors everywhere. My son was fine eventually, but it was scary and I'm glad to this day that I didn't allow myself, as a brand new and very young mum, to be pushed around like that.

2beesornot2beesthatisthehoney · 12/09/2018 10:58

I haven’t read the whole post but thought I would add my experience , though I have agreed to students since.
I was in labour with my first child and required forceps for the delivery. I was single and it was a traumatic time in any case.
I was asked if I minded suptudents but too out of it on pethidin to be totally compus mentis at that point

About 6 students trooped in to the delivery room (plus 2 doctors) all of them in their white wellies! to watch my nether regions.

I sat up and asked if they wanted to buy tickets.!

TheHoundOfWinchester · 12/09/2018 11:28

I've never yet said no to a student.
A student actually delivered my dc2 and a different student performed a s&s with dc4.
I have a condition that means I often have to lumber punctures I think that's the only time I would refuse a student to actually perform the procedure although I would -and have- said yes to them observing.

yetanothernane · 12/09/2018 11:47

I had a student midwife, they asked if I was okay with it, and she did the majority of the observations etc. The senior one stitched me back up after ds had shredded my foof to bits.

I might be more concerned if it was a surgeon, but i live in hope that even trainee surgeons are vaguely competent!

Soulstealer · 12/09/2018 12:23

Most people will allow student observers unless the issue is of a gender specific intimate nature.

Turnitaroundagain · 12/09/2018 14:07

When I was 16 I was having an internal examination in hospital and was asked this question. I said yes and about 8 young male student doctors proceeded to give me an internal, vaginal examination. It was horrible, I was frozen to the spot just wanting it to be over.
So anyway, there’s a reason for you why some people might decline.

LauraB74 · 12/09/2018 14:51

I wish I had refused to let a student dr watch when I was in hospital. I found out at my 20 week scan that one of my twins was unlikely to survive and if he did he would be severely brain damaged. In the end at 33 weeks it was clear he was struggling and the kindest thing to do was to let him go.

I was asked if a student dr could be in the room for the procedure where they stopped his heart. I agreed under duress as I was a total mess. Having the consultant describe what she was doing in great detail to a student dr made the whole thing 20 times worse. She even said loudly that my son was now in Asystole so I knew the precise moment he died. It really was the worst moment in my life made worse by it being used a a teaching case

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