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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder why you would say 'No' to student doctors/nurses helping/observing your care?

540 replies

Whatsnextforus4 · 10/09/2018 11:46

DD has been quite poorly in hospital with bronchiolitis. She's on the mend now and We can go home today.
Since we've been in hospital the care has been fantastic were so so appreciative of the nhs.
We've been asked alot if junior doctors and student nurses can help and observe our daughters care and obviously have said yes. 4 doctors checked her over for discharge today and while it took longer it was 4 sets of ears and eyes ensuring all was ok all overseen by a qualified doctor.
DH got talking to a nurse and she said alot of people do refuse to let them in.
AIBU to wonder why anyone would decline as those are our future doctors and nurses and they will never learn if they can't see and do ALL of the illnesses and problems that they will have to deal with. You can only learn so much from a book.

OP posts:
fantasmasgoria1 · 10/09/2018 12:02

I have always said yes as when I was a student social worker on placement sitting in on appointments was essential to my learning! But it depends on the person, the issue etc . I might refuse on a psychiatrist appointment if I am really ill because I find admitting to certain aspects of my abuse upsetting.

NoLeslie · 10/09/2018 12:03

I had a student doctor at my traumatic birth, surreal hearing him discuss my labia with DH Shock Then the next time I had a student doctor was for a breast lump which again was a rather intimate thing for a bloke to check. Both of them were very professional and hopefully are now qualified and helping people. But it is quite a wierd thing to experience.

Spacezombies · 10/09/2018 12:06

When I was being induced, the midwife doing it asked if a couple of stuendes could watch. I said yes.... Then 11 of them came into the room. I had my legs up already so they all go a good Look! Honestly, if she's told me 11 then I might have said no as it was very cramped and I had to stay like that for ages so they could all have a look at what she was doing. Seemed a bit much.

Flashingbeacon · 10/09/2018 12:08

Ds was an emergency admission on “new dr day”. They were great if a little jumpy. I think it’s important that they see lots of people in difficult states, not when the patient doesn’t want it obviously but when everything isn’t straight forward. I’m sure that explained why when I said “I’m sorry, I’m sure you’re very competent but you need to find me another dr now, ones that’s older than I am, a real dr” they dealt with it with grace. (I sent biscuits and a card with an apology). If you were always ushered out when the shit hit the fan you couldn’t deal with it when you newly qualified.
Having said that, when my gran died of natural causes they asked my dad if they could autopsy her and he said no. My mum asked a year later why he’s said that because he was all in favour of that kind of thing and he said he didn’t know. In the heat of the moment he just defaulted to no so maybe that’s got a lot to do with it.

PrivateDoor · 10/09/2018 12:10

arethereanyleftatall

That doesn't add up at all, it is very rare for a woman to decline a student midwife actually, plus it would be unusual for them to literally just stand and watch and do nothing. There would also never be 12 student midwives on shift together! No more than one student would be sent in. I would say the people were of various disciplines, particularly if you were in theatre, and not all students!

Kaykay06 · 10/09/2018 12:10

Doesn’t bother me, I wouldn’t mind them seeing whatever it was I was in for. I understand though if others wouldn’t like this so each to their own.

I had a couple of midwifery students whilst in labour none for any delivery purely because I wasn’t asked if one could be present and 2 were very fast.

Son has been in hospital with asthma a few times, had many lovely paeds student nurses look after him and they generally have more time to entertain him and chat whilst doing obs etc.

lastly, as a nurse myself I often have students working in the ward with us and usually they are fantastic, working with kids it’s good to have a few students on the ward as I said above to play and chat to kids and often are great distraction for them. We only have a couple of med students on the ward, def wouldn’t send 4 to one patient that’s very overwhelming for some families/kids. Although usually once a week the drs do a grand ward round where they are teaching the juniors and med students as they round on the patients, not a fan of those days as it takes a long time. But everyone has to learn and more people say yes than no to having them present.

hammeringinmyhead · 10/09/2018 12:11

I'm happy to have them in my appointments but I was a bit uneasy when a midwife went off to check my urine and a student midwife was turned loose on the system to book my next appt. She was clearly unsure if it was working properly and I still don't know if it'll be in there when I turn up tomorrow.

StaySafe · 10/09/2018 12:13

I agreed to a student doctor being present for DS1's birth, despite the fact that it was a private hospital and I was paying a lot of money. The consultant who was involved said that she was concerned student might struggle to find a natural birth to observe if I said no.

whatwouldyoubelikeat28 · 10/09/2018 12:13

Sometimes when you are sick and fragile you don't want extra random people, you don't even really want the actual doctor.

Seeing the gynecologist there was a 22 year old boy there, and I couldn't face having a kid like that looking at my bits while I found out how life-threatening my diagnoses was. It is NOT my responsibility to educate them. We have rights to privacy, and I want to use them.

IrmaFayLear · 10/09/2018 12:14

I don't mind at all.

I was a bit cross though when whilst giving birth the student doctor looking on retched!

happymummy12345 · 10/09/2018 12:14

I don't understand why anyone would not tbh.

Sirzy · 10/09/2018 12:14

I agreed to let a student opthamologist do ds test earlier this year, she picked up something that had been missed at all his other appointments (in theory this appointment was just to discharge him) meaning he is now being treated and may need surgery!

NCPuffin · 10/09/2018 12:16

I've always allowed students, have been in specifically for a group of trainee physiotherapists to practise on me and have had a student GP do a smear test on me awkward because he was really hot. I will be having DC1 in the next month and I have said I will only allow students if it doesn't add to the total number of people in the room (so happy to have a qualified midwife and a student instead of two qualified midwives). I feel bad about this, almost guilty, but I want to feel like I have ownership of the situation and I won't if there are hordes of people in the room. I will make an exception for the student midwife who sat with me for ages when I had come in after a severe anxiety attack. She was wonderful and would be welcome any timeSmile

I might actually say no more than one student, as a compromise!

LeftRightCentre · 10/09/2018 12:17

You're really so lacking in imagination and ability to think outside your own box that you have to ask such a question? Seriously? Or pretend curiosity and inquisitiveness a suitable pretext to be sanctimonious and sneer at others who aren't just like your good self Hmm?
FFS, of course some people decline due to the nature of their conditions and life experiences. DUH.

PrivateDoor · 10/09/2018 12:19

I have always been happy for students to be present however the one time I was very unhappy was when school work experience kids were allowed in to NICU to accompany the doctors on the ward round - I Wasn't even allowed in for this and was asked to stop feeding dd and place her back in her cot as the ward round is confidential (could they not have started with dd, saw her first, then let me take her to the feeding room to finish??). I had overheard the nurses discussing the work experience kids and saying how inappropriate it was but that the consultant was insisting as one was a relative. I doubt they would even have gotten much out of it as they won't have understood most of the stuff being said. My own dd was 16 at the time and wasn't allowed in to see her new sibling due to 'infection control' which I understood but was very annoyed when these other kids were allowed in for no real benefit to anyone.

glintandglide · 10/09/2018 12:19

Privacy. Traumatic things happen in hospitals and it can be made more traumatic by the presence of unnecessary people

Luckily hospitals recognise this and ask first

3timeslucky · 10/09/2018 12:19

I've refused a blood test novice after I had had a novice push me to almost passing out on another occasion.

I think that's all I've ever refused but I can imagine that in some situations people feel so unwell and vulnerable that they feel being a teaching specimen is a step too far. Sometimes people have very strong issues around privacy. And maybe sometimes people just don't think about how medics are supposed to train and get real experience.

Tartsamazeballs · 10/09/2018 12:20

I'll always say yes to a student midwife as long as they respect my hippy dippy hypnobirth stuff. They tend to be nicer than the actual midwives.

I've said no when I was at a gyne appointment when I was younger. I needed a cyst looking at and I was (unduly) freaking out as it was.

Depends on the situation and how you're feeling doesn't it.

reallybadidea · 10/09/2018 12:20

I say no because I am a HCP myself who often comes across students at my place of work. I don't want to discuss my medical history with someone I might be working with a few days later!

Bekabeech · 10/09/2018 12:22

I've walked into a Gynae appointment and two male Doctors chatting away happily - first thing the consultant said to me was "Do you mind if this trainee Doctor sits in". I said NO.
It was intimidating and stressful enough, and I felt out numbered by their relationship.
A friend was herself a trainee Doctor and refused because she didn't want people she might well know knowing her intimate business.

I usually agree at the GP etc. But there are reasons to say no and reasons to agree.

sashh · 10/09/2018 12:23

After teaching health and social care for a number of years, yes there are some students I wouldn't want observing for some things. Also people like your neighbour's child who you think of as the toddler you knew.

Others, and students I don't know, not a problem. I even asked a student shadowing an anesthetist if she wanted to intubate me. I figure it's best to do the first one with an anesthetist at your side rather than an emergency.

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 10/09/2018 12:24

I've always said yes to students watching/helping but I won't let them do things like cannulas any more after the last time when it had to be re-done so many times.
Similar with me, though I had a student phlebotomist attempting to take blood and that's an experience I never want to live through again.
Would probably feel a bit dodgy with certain internals too, however this situation has never cropped up.

NutellaFitzgerald · 10/09/2018 12:24

Not minding is one thing but those who don't mind are surely in favour that a patient is always ASKED. A patient is a human being, not a bunch of symptoms and their right to privacy is to be respected.

I have said no but feel it should be asked. It would not be fair to foist a student on your treatment which can be very personal.

I gave birth at a university hospital and it was students galore. It bothered me a tiny bit but my midwife who had a student was superb in allowing us to build rapport so I didn't feel like a teaching aid.

More recently DS went for as ASD assessment and as we walked into the room we were met with a psychologist, a paediatrician plus two students, so four adults all seated facing us and staring as we entered the room. Massively intimidating for my 5 year old DS and unfair. We had not been warned.

I spoke to paediatrician about it after the appt. Didn't mind them being there but would have been nicer for them to have waited outside until called in. The wall of faces made me start, never mind 5yr old DS.

SoxonFeet · 10/09/2018 12:25

Honestly? It's every persons right to decline student testing. It doesn't make those who refuse bad people.

My child is a hospital regular, due to a chronic condition. My child already has anxiety over hospitals and is extremely sensitive about who takes part in their care. Despite this, most of the staff offer them up as a 'regular' who will be less freaked out than the other kids because they are used to it. Not a chance. My child may be used to the hospital environment but that is not a green light to let an already traumatised child be practised on, especially if its an invasive procedure. I don't hesitate to refuse unless it is a talking issue rather than a procedural one. Similarly, my child may be compliant for some procedures or have a full scale meltdown. We (his mother and his medical team) can't predict if my child will comply or breakdown, despite working on a strict guidance put together with my child. Why would we want someone to witness a full scale meltdown with refusals/aggression and sometimes awful behaviour? My child doesn't have the ability to rationalise their thought processes yet, and it becomes a fight or flight situation. The child is usually extremely apologetic and upset after these incidents, a watchful student would only make the process worse.

I understand that everyone has to learn, to become better medical professionals, but it is entirely at the discretion of the individual and no-one should be thought less of for refusing.

Helmetbymidnight · 10/09/2018 12:25

When I was giving birth, they asked me.

I was so high on gas and air, I welcomed them all effusively. 'Come on in, the more the merrier' etc etc.

[cringe]