To wonder why you would say 'No' to student doctors/nurses helping/observing your care?

[Whatsnextforus4]

DD has been quite poorly in hospital with bronchiolitis. She's on the mend now and We can go home today.
Since we've been in hospital the care has been fantastic were so so appreciative of the nhs.
We've been asked alot if junior doctors and student nurses can help and observe our daughters care and obviously have said yes. 4 doctors checked her over for discharge today and while it took longer it was 4 sets of ears and eyes ensuring all was ok all overseen by a qualified doctor.
DH got talking to a nurse and she said alot of people do refuse to let them in.
AIBU to wonder why anyone would decline as those are our future doctors and nurses and they will never learn if they can't see and do ALL of the illnesses and problems that they will have to deal with. You can only learn so much from a book.

Agree although 4 students is too many IMO. One student working alongside one qualified member of staff is more appropriate.

I always let them have a bash on me but I could understand if you were very anxious or had a very personal issue you might refuse. If you're able (even if you'd prefer not to) I do think you should accept the student Dr or nurse. Otherwise there'll be no qualified ones in a few years!

Surely if the doctor was a woman and some of the students men, you might say no for certain conditions?

It might depend on the emotions related to what is going on in the room.

Getting discharged for bronchiolitis is a happy occasion.

I do agree with you for the most part thought.

Agree with threeanklebiters - personal issue, anxiety and I also think four at once is too many.
I am fine with an extra bod observing.

I had a student mw but refused when they asked if some student doctors could observe some of my after birth care. I'd been in labour for 30 hours, the last five of which had been agony on a drip with a back to back baby. I was exhausted and in shock, plus a pretty shredded vagina. At that point I didn't give even a tiny shit about the junior doctors! I was fine about having them sit in for a fairly mundane gp appointment though.

We have students at our GP surgery and it's great. You can often get a same day appointment with them. There is a GP there. The students ask what your symptoms are etc, there is some discussion round what it could be and possible treatment, then the GP has the final word and prescribes medication.
Great system. YANBU.

Yanbu.
They asked if student midwifes could watch when I gave birth to dd2. I was in so much pain I couldn't care less. So, in the end there was about 12 watching in the room, cos not many people are happy to be watched giving birth apparently, which is understandable. One of them fainted!

A student doctor found an issue the qualified doctor missed when I was in last time, as such I would always say yes to trainees, their training is fresher and they aren't so jaded by patients! Thanks to that student I was operated on that afternoon and made a full recovery, chances are the infection would have spread and caused sepsis if it has been left.

I appreciate however in sensitive or embarrassing cases, the less people the better, no matter how beneficial it may be for the student, you need to feel comfortable too!

The only time I would waver about this is for internal exams or similar - it would be quite overwhelming to have 4 people 'practising' on you while in a state of undress and a vulnerable position. I am probably biased though as I saw a dr several years ago who told me, not asked me, that two students would be doing an internal exam on me. It felt very invasive. But other than that specific circumstance I agree i would be pleased to have an extra pair of eyes checking me over.

i mostly agree with you but back in the day, when I was a student, I had an abortion. at the hospital i specified no student of any sort was allowed in, as I was worried there was a chance it could be someone I knew.

I think its really important that student doctors get the experience they need, but the patient must always have the right to refuse.

The patient can't cope with that many people around them.

I have been in many different settings including gynae and unequivocally allowed them but a recent admission was very sensitive and terrible really and I didn't want observers/students there. It was too serious and I didn't feel like being observed like some sort of chimp. I appreciate that they have to learn so 99 times out of 100, I would say yes.

I've always said yes to students watching/helping but I won't let them do things like cannulas any more after the last time when it had to be re-done so many times. But anything that doesn't have the potential to hurt me is fine and observing is always fine but I completely understand why some people would not be happy with that, especially with things like gynaecological exams.

It depends on a lot of things, including speciality.

I’m a doctor working in CAMHS (child and adolescent mental health). I see young people with depression, eating disorders, self harm etc. I always have a junior doctor or a student with me.

A lot of patients ask that a student/junior not join the appointment. Given how sensitive my specialty is, I think that’s fair enough.

Ive been in hospital where I've had more than 4 junior doctors around me. Yes I felt like a bit of a zoo exhibit but I wasn't overly bothered. It was a teaching hospital so they need to learn. I can understand some people not wanting it though. It's personal choice at the end of the day and there will always be more patients to learn on.

It depends really. 4 students at one time I would have to say no to if my son was with me. He has ASD and that many people and the process taking longer would result in them learning one thing: how to help cause a meltdown. I wouldn’t want 4 extra people attending my smear test either.

The student watching while the midwife gave me an anti D injection was fine. The lovely (male) student cradling my naked newborn so gently and singing to her while doing rounds with the paediatrician on the maternity ward while weighing her and doing the exam, also fine. If I hadn’t had a fanny full of stitches and felt like I’d been hit by a truck I’d have probably gone a bit gooey.

I'd say yes to them observing etc. but had one do a blood test on me once which resulted in blood all over the table, me almost fainting, and my arm being black from armpit to wrist which took weeks to go away. Everyone who saw me told me to sue (of course I didn't, they weren't negligent, just not very good) but there's no way I'd let a medical student near me for something similar again.

In terms of the "how will they ever learn" argument, I can see the point and that's why I agreed in the first place, but even experienced phlebotomists have difficulty taking blood from me, so let the students practice on someone easier.

I've had chronic medical issues for 10 years, some are quite unusual. I've been a patient at local hospitals, Great Ormond Street and neurology at St. George's and every one of these places has asked if students can observe. At no point would ever consider saying no. Once upon a time I wanted to be a doctor and understand how important hands on experience is.

My potential embarrassment means nothing compared to their experience. One of my conditions only affects 1 in 50,000 people, so in a specialty they may not see another person with that condition in the next 10 years. I am well aware that in my GP surgery that only one of the GPs has seen someone else with the same condition as me and that has been once in the past 25 years. I wouldn't deny students the opportunity and I enjoy answering their questions.

As a student midwife I had plenty of people decline my care, especially in labour. I totally get it, especially with birth, people want privacy and I certainly don't mind. I declined a student nurse having a go at taking my blood after the nurse failed, as I have terrible veins and didn't want to be a pin cushion!

The only time I refused was when it was someone I had taught at school and not had the best relationship with. The hospital was fine about it and agreed that it was in neither person's interest.

Once I went for physio and found a young man I taught the previous year, and now on a college course, observing as part of his work experience. I was asked to take off my T-shirt down to my bra and the lad nearly died of embarrassment! Much simpler now to refuse if it's someone I taught

@ForalltheSaints, why would it matter? At the end of the day, they're all medical professionals.
If I have a medical problem, I want someone who knows what they're doing. I couldn't care less whether they're male or female.

I think most people in hospital are unwell and don’t generally want to be a test case study, they just want peace and to feel better/get out.

HildaZelda I could not care less but some women would, I expect.

I always allow student doctors/midwives to get involved in my care, however when I was in labour with dc1 i agreed to a student placing the drip in my hand (even though I know I have really difficult veins and I told them this), of course I ended up with massive bruises on the backs of both hands. All other soreness from labour was well healed up by the time those bloody bruises faded! With hindsight I should have said no and after 30 hours of labour I wish they’d thought not to ask.