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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder why you would say 'No' to student doctors/nurses helping/observing your care?

540 replies

Whatsnextforus4 · 10/09/2018 11:46

DD has been quite poorly in hospital with bronchiolitis. She's on the mend now and We can go home today.
Since we've been in hospital the care has been fantastic were so so appreciative of the nhs.
We've been asked alot if junior doctors and student nurses can help and observe our daughters care and obviously have said yes. 4 doctors checked her over for discharge today and while it took longer it was 4 sets of ears and eyes ensuring all was ok all overseen by a qualified doctor.
DH got talking to a nurse and she said alot of people do refuse to let them in.
AIBU to wonder why anyone would decline as those are our future doctors and nurses and they will never learn if they can't see and do ALL of the illnesses and problems that they will have to deal with. You can only learn so much from a book.

OP posts:
abacucat · 10/09/2018 13:04

I personally have never said no. But I am lucky never to have had an issue that I find it very hard to even discuss with a Dr, like some of the aforementioned people.

JayoftheRed · 10/09/2018 13:04

Not quite the same, but I had a health visitor come to my house for my son's 2 year check up a few years ago. She brought a student health visitor without telling me and asked me on the doorstep if it was ok. I could hardly say no, could I? "Actually, could you wait in the car for the hour appointment?" I genuinely didn't mind, but I would have appreciated being asked in advance. No matter though.

What I didn't appreciate was the HV then talking about me to the student, and telling her how I'd struggled to bond with my son (not true), how I'd given up breastfeeding very early on in a tone that quite clearly stated that she disapproved of it, and how I'd had to have counselling in the first few months to get used to looking after someone else (not true again, I had counselling due to my mother in law's dreadful behaviour towards me and my husband's lack of help - he'd just tell me to put up with it).

I didn't appreciate being talked about like this - I didn't feel able to contradict her as my son was there and I was near tears. I simply refused to see the HV again, and insisted that in future I be told that the student was coming - if she hadn't been there (whether at my request or not), the HV wouldn't have been able to be so rude about me. I haven't been asked since, but if I was I would have to think about it.

I've had students in the GP and never thought anything of it. They have to learn!

puppymouse · 10/09/2018 13:04

I allowed a couple of trainees to be there when I went in for CIN II cells removal. I was wary as it was a big deal for me and was having a general because of other issues but one of them actually cuddled me when she had to ask me some questions and I got upset. Never had that before or since.

Obviously not appropriate professionally day to day I guess but she had so much empathy I loved her for it in that moment. Some doctors end up switching that off to cope I think or never have it in the first place.

Wispaismyfave · 10/09/2018 13:06

I always say yes, even when I've had internal scans, so potentially embarrassing for some people. Once it was a male student just observing (he was quite young and was clearly far more embarrassed than me!) and another time the girl doing the internal scan was a student, very close to qualifying. She was fantastic and gave me a guided tour of my reproductive organs, ok maybe not for everyone! I got pregnant and 12 months later she was fully qualified by then and did both my 12 and 20 week scans. My attitude is everyone has to learn.

The only time I was annoyed was when I had a student midwife help at my booking appointment, the qualified midwife didn't say this is X she's a student as they normally do. I found out she was a student when she was trying to take blood and missed the vein. I would have still said yes to letting the student do it as I do think everyone has to start somewhere, it just would have been nice to have been asked beforehand, that said the midwife actually hurt whereas the student didn't.

Poodles1980 · 10/09/2018 13:07

A student midwife delivered my baby for me. She explained she need to deliver x number for her qualification and I was her last one so I was happy to oblige. I felt a bit emotional for her when the baby arrived and she was thanking me and heading off.

Cath2907 · 10/09/2018 13:09

My mum had leaukaemia and was incredibly ill in what was supposed to be isolation due to her being at extreme risk of infection following her chemo. The microbiology consultant brought a team of students in and proceed to lecture them over my mum's bed. That was wildly inappropriate - she was trying to rest --die in peace and all they were doing was risking her catching yet more infections. I asked them to leave.

Normally I am happy to be a guinea pig but at the same time a bit of sense needs to be applied as to who they think might be ok to come and study on!

Jaffacakesfordinner · 10/09/2018 13:09

A jnr doctor helped me get a diagnosis and the best care possible by picking up something that qualified drs missed.

I always say yes...

Ive said no once when the student was overbearing and rude though. She did get a telling off

Motherhood101Fail · 10/09/2018 13:11

This reply has been withdrawn

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SapphireSeptember · 10/09/2018 13:13

Clearly I'm a terrible person, as I'd most likely decline (unless it was something simple like an ear infection.) I hate feeling crowded, certainly wouldn't want any more people than were necessary to see me in a state of undress, and I'm terribly anti-social. Anything to do with my mental health would be a big fat 'no' as well.

Huskylover1 · 10/09/2018 13:13

When I was in Labour, I was asked if a student midwife could give me an (additional) internal exam, purely for experience. Given that I was in incredible pain, it seemed a bit insensitive. I can't even recall now, whether I agreed or not.

unicornchaser · 10/09/2018 13:13

I would generally always say yes to students.
The people saying no to students at gyn appointments especially men, why shouldn't they also be trained? Some men go into the gyn field so how are they meant to learn if they can't be taught on real life cases?
I say this as someone who has had students at appointments before and this includes male students.

I would say no to multiple students at once though, 1 or at a push 2.

As you say OP, only so much can be learnt in a classroom.

Harrypotterfan1604 · 10/09/2018 13:14

I’m a student nurse so understand that people need to learn and when I was asked if a medical student could have a go of doing my smear test (my first ever smear test!) I said no. I was nervous about the very intimate procedure and hadn’t ever had any issues in that area so had never been examined and was really very frightened and even a bit embarrassed. The last thing I needed was someone having a try 🙈

keefthebeef · 10/09/2018 13:14

You can't imagine why anyone would ever say no? Really? Try being more empathic, people are different and have different life experiences.

I had a bad experience when I was 15 and had heavy bleeding. I was put in stirrups and examined whilst I was terrified - shaking and crying, no one explained what was happening to me and I was very naive. My mum was not allowed to be with me but they brought 6 male students who all laughed and I felt utterly humiliated and traumatised.

That is why I say no every time, because I was treated terribly when I was at my most vulnerable. I am sure other people have equally good reasons.

MaitlandGirl · 10/09/2018 13:16

We had a student Dr tentatively diagnose measles in DD2 when she was 13 mths old. The qualified GP diagnosed chicken pox but the student wasn’t sure so the older partner in the practice was called in for the “deciding vote”.

Turned out both drs were correct as she had measles and chicken pox (poor child) - the GP had never seen measles during his 15 years of practice and the student had only seen pictures, whereas the older GP was only 2 mths off retirement so had seen it years before.

We’ve currently got a student GP at our drs practice and she’s great - she’s the only dr that’s ever fully explained the changes in DWs MRI scans on her back injury and fully explained the dosage guidelines for the various meds she’s on.

I hope she stays after she’s qualified.

MsHomeSlice · 10/09/2018 13:17

I generally say yes, but after one student midwife unhelpfully said "oh there's no heartbeat" when I was in the middle of a very difficult labour I am more choosy about which circumstances I do so.

everything turned out fine, but dh said I got very scary very fast and the real midwife appeared, took over and we saw no more of the student.

Also I said yes to multiple students for a pre induction chat and observations but NO to same multiple students fossicking about in my area!

So on the whole it is Yes, and with DD being a student nurse I do see the need, but she has been very lucky and not been in a whole troop so has been closer to her patients when she has been on placement.

redexpat · 10/09/2018 13:19

I said no to student mws because I was studying at the same institution and didnt want to meet someone in the cantine who had had their hand in my vagina and seen me poo.

TJsAunt · 10/09/2018 13:21

it's too simple to say that everyone should say yes?

Hospitals and treatments can be traumatic - and this is easily exacerbated by spectators of any kind?

FWIW I would never let a student doctor do a blood test / put a cannula in - same experience as someone earlier up the thread with blood everywhere (2 different occasions) and me v close to fainting....

DisneyMillie · 10/09/2018 13:22

I had a student midwife on admission with my first dd - they didn’t believe I was in labour and sent her in to check me out “before they sent me home”.

It was a little disconcerting when she realised I was actually at pushing stage (very quick 2 hour labour from first pain) and she shouted “go get a midwife” at my dh! He said wasn’t that her and she said “no the real midwife”!

(Once she had support it was all fine though and it’s a fun memory)

Cath2907 · 10/09/2018 13:22

My DD is a test case in audiology regularly. She is 7, wears hearing aids and is very compliant. I always ask her permission before granting my own and she knows she can tell me quietly if it all gets too much and I'll put a stop to them. It is important they learnt to do the procedures on a real child but not more important than my child's welfare!

BackToTheFuschia7 · 10/09/2018 13:23

The people saying no to students at gyn appointments especially men, why shouldn't they also be trained? Some men go into the gyn field so how are they meant to learn if they can't be taught on real life cases?

You really can’t see why some women would prefer not to have multiple men examining them in such an intimate area? It’s not the responsibility of patients who are unwell/ anxious/ in pain to provide training opportunities.

User246 · 10/09/2018 13:25

I had student midwife's at my first birth. That meant I was examined twice so the students could have a feel. the best one was "oh there is a bulging sac would you like a feel"
"Oh yes I've never felt that before" (even then they refused to break the waters until they had been Bulging for 7 more hours and nothing changed!!!)

My second I put in my notes no students...I'd done by bit first time round!!!

diddl · 10/09/2018 13:30

"AIBU to wonder why anyone would decline "

Yes, of course!

I was in for a colposcopy & laser treatment.

I did say yes, but tbh I was so nervous & overwhelmed & didn't feel I could have said no.

SalemBlackCat · 10/09/2018 13:30

My Dr quite often has a student doctor with him but he ALWAYS asks if it is okay if they are present as we walk into the room and if not he would not be offended at all if I asked for them not to be there. Not sure but I think he is legally obliged to ask permission first.

kaitlinktm · 10/09/2018 13:30

keefthebeef
How dreadful for you. Flowers

It reminded me of a friend who had a similar though less traumatic experience - albeit it must be 30+ years ago now. She was at a gynaecological appointment, feet up in stirrups with everything on show. The doctor (consultant I suppose) excused himself and left the room only to return moments later with half a dozen young male medical students. No warning, no permission sought - nothing. She said she was shocked into speechlessness.

However, she was a lot older than 15 and there was no sniggering.

I hope your parents made a complaint.

AviatorShades · 10/09/2018 13:30

I've v. recently had a student doctor attempt to do a lumbar puncture. Healing hands that laydee aint got.Shock
ive a high pain threshold but she crossed it. BigTime.Again and again.
Eventually her supervising 'real' doctor took over(well, once I'd spontanously screamed out wth pain) and the procedure from that moment was painless.
She was left to take a blood sample. Bleedin' couldn't even do that.Not a fucking clue.Two weeks before the bruising had faded, mainly because she wasn't even going into a vein to get it!.

I'm hoping that I'll not have to have a repeat performance but if I ever did, I'd request that someone experienced did it. Someone not named
Ms.xxxxx