Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder why you would say 'No' to student doctors/nurses helping/observing your care?

540 replies

Whatsnextforus4 · 10/09/2018 11:46

DD has been quite poorly in hospital with bronchiolitis. She's on the mend now and We can go home today.
Since we've been in hospital the care has been fantastic were so so appreciative of the nhs.
We've been asked alot if junior doctors and student nurses can help and observe our daughters care and obviously have said yes. 4 doctors checked her over for discharge today and while it took longer it was 4 sets of ears and eyes ensuring all was ok all overseen by a qualified doctor.
DH got talking to a nurse and she said alot of people do refuse to let them in.
AIBU to wonder why anyone would decline as those are our future doctors and nurses and they will never learn if they can't see and do ALL of the illnesses and problems that they will have to deal with. You can only learn so much from a book.

OP posts:
TwistedStitch · 10/09/2018 12:27

What LeftRightCentre said.

Same goes for Hilda who apparently isn't capable of understanding why some women wouldn't want male HCPs.

TwllBach · 10/09/2018 12:27

It seemed to be standard practise for there to be student midwives in attendance when I was giving birth. I don't recall being asked, but I was told that the second midwife in with me was, in fact, a third year midwifery student. I couldn't have given two shits at the time and am getting a bit teary now just typing this, because I can just remember her holding my hand really tightly and telling me what a good job I was doing when I was at the pushing phase. She was just amazing

Having said that, earlier that day I had a student midwife try and do an internal examination a few hours after my pessary was inserted and she couldn't reach my cervix. She had to go and fetch someone more senior who, without ceremony, shoved what seemed like her whole arm up there! I could have done without two internals, but I do understand that everyone has to learn somehow.

EyUpOurKid · 10/09/2018 12:27

I had a crowd of students in when I was trying to have DS, there were at least six of them, that's all I can remember. They may have been observing my epidural being installed, or an internal, I really don't know.

You could have brought a matching band through and I wouldn't have cared. I'd been in labour for 30 hours, awake for three days and was exhausted. I wasn't really in the best place to consent or decline. I assume I was asked, it was a teaching hospital so once I was transferred it was common place.

Depends on how I was feeling on the day as to whether I would consent or decline. I had student MW for all my aftercare in hospital and it was fine.

TwllBach · 10/09/2018 12:28

Ah yes, I also wanted to say that, despite logic, I wouldn't want a male student/male students observing anything particularly intimate. I have been in several traumatic situations at the hands of males and, although I can just about hold on to my panic with a single male doctor, I don't think I could in a room full of men while I was in a vulnerable position.

kaytee87 · 10/09/2018 12:29

I've never said no but I can completely understand why some people might. It's not hard is it? Privacy, time constraints, mental health issues, history of SA, in a lot of pain so irritable etc etc.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 10/09/2018 12:29

When I was in childrens hosp back in the 80s a huge gang used to come round with the consultant, about 12 maybe 15 people. Lots of them would "have a go".

They all talked to each other rather than me - it was a very old school setup I guess, I was like an interesting specimen rather than a person.

I dind't really mind but I was very young and didn't know any better - certainly it just happened there was no consent around it.

Looking back it was a bit odd.

Don't know if that adds anything to the thread!

Lots of people might have lots of reasons for saying no - and that is up to them.

Rebecca36 · 10/09/2018 12:29

As long as the patient doesn't mind it is OK but some people are really tired and anxious and frankly would rather see no-one unless essential.
There's no right or wrong, just depends on individual circumstances.
Thank goodness we do have a choice!

JessicaJonesJacket · 10/09/2018 12:29

I used to say yes but a few times with DC's appointments the students unnecessarily prolonged the appointment and DC was poked and prodded four times as much as they would have been without student involvement. I tend to say 'no' now.
Unless I know it's a simple appointment which to be fair your discharge appointment was a simple one

Theweasleytwins · 10/09/2018 12:29

My first pregnancy I was politely asked if a student midwife could be in the room to observe my midwife using the Doppler on me- more than happy- always felt I could say no if I want and felt I was helping someone learn which was nice

This time round the sulky midwife who took my blood had a student with her-didn't explain to me why he was there or ask if he could be. Want happy but didn't say anything

(My first pregnancy midwife was a man-so that wasn't the problem)

kaytee87 · 10/09/2018 12:30

Oh I've remembered a time I refused a student observing and it was for my first smear test. I didn't know what to expect, was only 20 and it made me feel uncomfortable.

Chipotlejars · 10/09/2018 12:32

In general I agree with you op. Very important that students receive hands on training. And I am of the age and size now that they are more likely to be embarrassed by me than the other way around!Grin

However, however, it is very important to be asked. And there was one occasion when I was in hospital a while back and finding the whole experience very stressful. There was one particular day when, owing to pain, anxiety, heat, hectic ward, if I had been asked I would have refused because it would have been all too much. So I completely understand that there are circumstances in which patients would want to decline.

Also I imagine there are occasions when people have had to summon up a lot of courage to talk to a doctor about something personal such as anxiety and depression or an illness involving an intimate part of their anatomy, when having someone else there would make the whole thing much harder or impossible.

Bluelady · 10/09/2018 12:33

I'd never say no. Despite the state a student doctor left my arm in after fitting his first ever cannula.

EthelThePiratesDaughter · 10/09/2018 12:33

I've had all my smear tests done by students. They have to learn somehow.

jaynelovesagathachristie · 10/09/2018 12:34

Pretty much all my appointments with pregnancies were done by student Drs with my named dr in same room she was lovely. It was her face on a routine 37 week check exam which confused me she asked for dr to double check and he announced she was correct I was 6cm. She was very nice even if a bit flustered not having met a labouring person who didn't know they were b4. It really important for the student to learn imo

lovetherisingsun · 10/09/2018 12:35

Was on my back with legs spread once at GUM clinic at 19yrs old - doctor was having a look down there, said "I'll be back in a moment". Left me there for 10 minutes on my back, then returned with four medical students (3 males 1 female) without asking me first. I was too shocked (and naieve) to say anything. Intimate stuff like that is the only time I'll say no if it's men. Otherwise have always said yes.

amusedbush · 10/09/2018 12:35

A student doctor removed my contraceptive implant - I had no problem allowing it. It took a little while to remove due to scar tissue but the qualified doctor was very encouraging and it went fine.

They have to learn somehow.

HavelockVetinari · 10/09/2018 12:36

I've always said yes, but can understand why some might say no (anxiety, feeling overwhelmed etc.). Although I did recommend sensitivity training for the student doctor who asked me very earnestly if I'd tried taking vitamins to help me conceive whilst I was miscarrying a much-wanted IVF baby after years of trying... Hmm
I'm sure he meant well but FFS!

bostonkremekrazy · 10/09/2018 12:36

Between my 4 disabled children we average 3 hospital appointments a week. If asked I say I don't mind students observing but we never allow students to run the appointment or ask questions in front of the children. It simply takes too much time, and can be too intrusive. Our older children are now at an age to say no they want to see their usual doctors.
When you are a frequent flyer as a child it can be overwhelming enough without being practised on 😕

Junkmail · 10/09/2018 12:36

When I was a student nurse most people were very accommodating with allowing students to participate in care/observe procedures. Some people less so and I totally get it. For most people being in the hospital is of course a highly stressful event and some people want to minimise who they have to deal with—ie. one doctor/nurse at a time. Some people just are so anxious about their health they only want fully qualified staff to engage in their care. Some are there for really personal reasons and don’t want extra people dealing with the situation. Any reason a patient gives for not wanting students involved is valid and respected. After all, there are always many patients to treat and I found most really happy to accept students.

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 10/09/2018 12:37

When I was in childrens hosp back in the 80s a huge gang used to come round with the consultant, about 12 maybe 15 people. Lots of them would "have a go".

Whenever I've been asked if its ok for students to observe/do something there's never been more than 4. I managed to break my arm a few years back and I realised I must have done it in some spectacular fashion when I was suddenly descended on by a Dr and about 15 students. All the students umming and ahhing over the notes/x-rays and looking at my arm. After they left a nurse came in and I asked her if it was that bad and she laughed and said it certainly seemed like a great learning case. And so it proved to be, my consultant later told me I hadn't broken it, I'd shattered it Envy

doesthemindrulethebody · 10/09/2018 12:37

I have no issue with students, although I did go for a smear test about 2 years ago and was asked if the student doctor could carry it out. Sure, no problem, he's got to learn and it makes no difference to me who's sticking things up there. Student doctor comes in....it's my best friends brother. Mortified.

oakthorn · 10/09/2018 12:38

There are more students doctors and nurses who have felt my norks since I was diagnosed with bc than enough. Happy to have them in even in the difficult discussion days. I hope they learn from the empathy and kindness of my surgeon and Breast care nurses

GoatWoman · 10/09/2018 12:39

Completely agree with LeftRightCentre.

Everything else has been tedious showing off exposing stupidity.

RedRaggedRun · 10/09/2018 12:39

4 doctors examined your daughter? Don't you think that puts undue anxiety and stress on your already unwell child?

I wouldn't mind for myself unless it was a personal issue that I needed a private examination for.

ilovegin112 · 10/09/2018 12:40

Nor so long ago most training by doctors and nurses was done on the wards, some people think they were better trained being practically on the job rather than being in the classroom where you can end up with people brilliantly qualified on paper but have no empathy or a love to help

Swipe left for the next trending thread