To still be annoyed that Hermione married Ron?

[ThomasRichard]

I know, the last book came out years ago, but I’m re-reading them now with DS and it’s got me annoyed all over again. He’s a mediocre, sulky man-child, while she’s a brilliantly talented witch. Why would she ever marry him?!

It’s not intended to be shit

Ron is her bit of rough. She loves it!

I hated the Ginny storyline at the time but upon rereading I can see it more from her POV. I love those “I fancied my big brothers friend” story lines where it works out. It’s how my Nan and Grandad met (although obviously DGF didn’t bring about the ultimate demise of the darkest wizard ever known)

For me the stand out romance is Dumbledore and Grindlewald 🖤

Why does she have to be black? As long as no one has an issue with the actress in the play, which I don’t think they do, what’s wrong with Hermione also being white?

NO-ONE has said that Hermione HAS to be black. Or that there is anything wrong with Hermione being also white.

It's the thinking that makes the leap from "Hermione can be black too, you know" to "Why does she HAVE to be black" that is shit.

Or the thinking behind "Hermione must be white, because JKR has SPECIFICALLY DESCRIBED ALL THE BLACK PEOPLE in the books as black".

That's the shit non-white people have to put up with. It may be unintended shit, but it's still shit.

Your second point I didn’t say that was someone else.

It’s the twisting the writing that annoys me, whether it’s to make someone black, or white, or gay, or in love with totally the wrong person.

I said what I felt above: More honest to say that she pictured Hermione as white but that there is no reason she can’t be black and that the actress chosen is the best one to play that character.

Because she was clearly originally thought of as white. Like Dean was originally thought of as black (but called Gary).

Oh god, does it fucking matter if she’s black?! If you can suspend your belief enough to accept MAGIC and HORCRUXES and ELDER WANDS, you can suspend it enough to accept that a main character is not defined by the colour of her skin, regardless of what’s in the book!!!!

Anyway back to Ron... the actor owns an ice cream van now. I’d marry him for that.

Of course she can be black. She is fictional. She can also be Buddhist and vegetarian. It’s not integral to her character.

But seeing an illustration depicting a white face, reading ‘her white face” - I do not understand why people are saying that that is ambivalent. It’s not. But you are correct is that her skin colour doesn’t matter a tiny bit (though had she been written as black originally that would probably have been better).

No, it doesn’t matter at all, I think that’s clear through the posts.

But why did Rowling have to be disingenuous? When it doesn’t matter in the slightest?

What Rowling literally said:

Canon: brown eyes, frizzy hair and very clever. White skin was never specified. Rowling loves black Hermione

How the fuck is she "twisting the text" or being dishonest? Yes, she probably envisaged a white Hermione (and she hasn't denied this, or said that she always saw Hermione as black (or as white)). That DOESN'T MATTER. The text also allows for a non-white Hermione (please spare me the "black people don't go white" bollocks - it's an idiom, FFS).

Why on earth is that so problematic?

disingenuous
adjective. not sincere, especially in pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.

How Rowling was disingenuous when she said that, yes, Hermione can perfectly well be imagined as black, is beyond me.

Because she did say white face, she did draw a white face.

It would be the same for me if she started saying that Draco was gay and fancied because she never said otherwise and it could be read either way.

Canon is canon. Canon does not have to be stuck to - fanfic shows that.

Saying “hermione’s white face stuck out” isn’t an idiom.

I don’t think Rowling was being sincere. I don’t see why she couldn’t have been. After all, it doesn’t matter.

I think Hermione was written as white.

And until the casting for the play was announced, I bet no-one gave it a second thought, as it has no bearing whatsoever on the character.

She did say that Dumbledore was gay any everyone went apeshit, if I recall rightly.

I don’t think Rowling was being sincere.

Sincere about what? She never said "I wrote Hermione thinking of her as a black girl". She said that she CAN be read as black. Which she can.

Yes, Hermione was probably written as white. What JKR said is that that doesn't matter at all. How is that dishonest?

And I would seriously question my motivations if I felt so strongly about Hermione having to be white, actually.

I don’t think she has to be white at all

I don’t think harry has to be straight

I don’t think Ron has to be tall and freckly and ginger

But in canon they are.
So what

Dean, Kingsley shacklebolt and zabini blaise were clearly stated as being black in her books. They were then cast as such in the movies.

She envisaged her as white. To say otherwise is disingenuous.

Personally, I'd like consistency in the characters. Cho Chang can't be cast as a white woman all because she's the best actress iyswim. She was Chinese, why change it?

I not sure why I am being told off for imagining her as white character by "default" Hermione was definitely written and initially imagined as a white character. The race of Hermioos irrelevant. Just as her being a girl was irrelevant until book 4.
But I'm just saying that Hermione is not black. (Just portrayed by a black actress in the play)
As all the "evidence" suggests that JK imagined her white. As mentioned earlier. Additionally, See her own sketches where she is clearly white (see Gary/Dean for comparison)

It's all fiiiine. Chill.

@DistanceCall is making a mountain out a molehill. That's all.

Yes, the evidence is that JKR imagined her as white.

That doesn't mean that she is white, FFS. Every reader imagines characters differently in their own mind. What the author "sees" when they write is not what readers see.

Rowling makes Ron's being red-headed important (because the Weasleys are all red-headed, so it's something that distinguishes them). She makes Harry's having glasses important, because they break sometimes.

Hermione's being white is not important, and, as JKR points out, the character is written loosely enough that she can be imagined as black without any problem (regardless of how the author imagined her - that doesn't matter, the reader is not in the author's mind). What is important to her is her intelligence and her courage (and, I would add, her coming from a muggle background).

Seriously, it's as if the mere idea that Hermione CAN be read as black was depriving white people of something.

No. I'm just pointing out that throwing a hissy fit, insisting that "JKR is being dishonest 'cos Hermione IS white, waaaaaah" is racist shit.

It’s really not racist.

It’s also more to the fact that Rowling is backtracking to make canon fit her new narrative which reallt isn’t necessary.

Neither is Ron having red hair. They could all have had jet black curls, it wouldn’t affect their characters. But they did have red hair.

Hermione - white
Dean - black
Seamus - Irish
Ron - southern English
Cho - Asian heritage

All canon. All immaterial to their characters. It’s not racist or homophobic or any other negative thing to state canon is canon. Except maybe a little anal.

And I think you are the only one throwing a hissy fit. Most if not all other posters have been very calm and measured.

This from the person who wrote:

"Why does she have to be black? As long as no one has an issue with the actress in the play, which I don’t think they do, what’s wrong with Hermione also being white?"

Right.

Well that escalated fast 🤔 Am I the only one that thinks this has gone way off topic......

Another one. And this matters more because of lily.

Harry’s eyes. Now I know there is continuity through the movies but it’s not canon. Pisses me right off.

Answer - there is nothing wrong with it. One is just as ok as the other. But canon is canon and that’s what I have the issue with.

Another example - I don’t believe lavenders skin colour was established in the books, in the early film(s) she was played by a black girl but when her part was beefed up they found a new actress who was white.

That seemed unnecessary and again pissed me off because continuity. Not because it particularly matters what her skin colour is.