To think the deliberate targeting of disabled people is idealogical and reminiscent of the 3rd reich?

[malificent7]

Friends and I were discussing the current government's treatment of the disabled and I heard ANOTHER harrowing story. Her friends has multiple disabilities, cannot walk and relies on painkillers to make life tolerable. After her last assessment this woman was deemed fit to work and was told by a non medical professional (AKA administrator) that she didn't need medication. Her financial support was removed and now she has nothing whilst she stages an appeal.

The trouble is the government has scrapped a scheme which got disabled people into work. My good friend's sister has quite severe learning disabilities but was very happy in her job in a café until the government scrapped the scheme. Another thing we can thank Cameron for. She was devastated and wanted to work as it gave her self esteem.

So we have double standards here. We are being told to get jobs or loose benefits yet jobs are being cut.

AIBU to feel that humanity has learned nothing from history lessons at school and during a financial crisis we are keen to scapegoat others (disabled, jews etc.) Seems like most people don't want to help others as 'they work hard and why should they pay taxes?'

Someone will probably come along to say that Corbyn is an anti semite but the Nazis were anti disabled and wanted to squeeze them out of existence. So are the Tories. Is this an example of political gaslighting , cognitive dissonance or projection I wonder?

That can't be right. Terminal cancer diagnoses come with guaranteed benefits

If you don't die within a set time frame (six months) then they class you as fit for work. It's appalling.

YANBU Op

Wrong if you are given a prognosis of 6 months or less and do are treated under the special rules you don’t have to die within the 6 months or you lose your benefits or hospice care.

YANBU. Unfortunately there are people who would rather thousands of genuine claimants are left destitute and desperate than risk a tiny minority of people falsely claiming. They'll always hark back to the story of their friend's neighbour who ran marathons while claiming £100k a year in disability allowance. Ultimately since people think it won't happen to them it's easy to "other" disabled people.

And at least if/when labour get in we can all be equally poor!

Except that's not how it works at all is it? Equality has huge benefits through out society. It's also plain fair. I have no resentment at all in paying taxes to support disabled people - the more the better. I do resent paying taxes to support huge companies who don't pay their workers a living wage.

I feel ashamed to live in a country that treats it's most vulnerable so poorly. Isn't the UK on the UN''s list of human rights abusers for the way it treats disabled people?

That can't be right. Terminal cancer diagnoses come with guaranteed benefits

If you don't die within a set time frame (six months) then they class you as fit for work. It's appalling.

Something is going wrong somewhere. I know someone with terminal cancer, and after a quick phone call they got full payments within a week. This is their second PIP successive application and they haven't been asked to hand it back. In fact I know of someone who had 3 successive PIPs. Have these people had DS1500 forms from their consultants?

I knew things were bad, but didn't understand the soul destroying impact dealing with the DWP can have on individuals until I had to do it myself. It took me nine months to get a PIP award, and at the worst times - where they stopped my payments for no reason at all and I was heading towards losing my home - I was actively suicidal and under crisis care. I'm one of the more fortunate ones, I didn't have to go to appeal (by which point I would have lost my home), and I have people around me to offer emotional support. But there are many people that don't have that, they're already isolated, they don't understand the (incredibly complex) system, and they've got landlords pushing them for money they haven't got, quite possibly debt and bailiffs involved too.

It is no exaggeration to say that people have died because of the actions of this government.

I always wondered how on earth anyone would have been a concentration camp guard. I get it now. I genuinely think it's a reasonable comparison. There are assessors who are deliberately twisting things and making up lies to do ill and disabled people out of the pitifully small amount of money that they desperately need to survive. What sort of person does that?

YAundoubtedlyNBU. Not much I can add really! Other posters have said it all. Sadly it's not until the average person is directly affected, either personally or by disability in their immediate family, that they consider stopping listening to the media and actually thinking rationally. The fact that the Tories have been re elected twice in one term shows how many people have that ability in general.

I do think it is right to question anyone submitting a PIP claim to ensure there are no fraudulent claims, but those who are genuinely ill should get their payments and get them fast. If you can produce any document from any HCP, be it Consultant, CMH nurses, Drs etc, which supports your claim why can't that be accepted?

Crips - disagree - because in order to make people more equal you have to take some of their freedoms away

Give Dave and John 5 pounds each. John starts a business and turns 5 into 20. Dave Wastes his 5 then needs more from the government.

To make them equal again you must take away from John. How does that incentivise success in society?

How does that incentivise success in society?

And what the fuck does that even have to do on a thread about the horrific treatment of the disabled and severely ill?

Max

The conversation had turned to the value of equality

But thanks for your input - perhaps some deep breaths and a chill pill might help you

I was talking to lady with a terminal condition the other day. She was assessed as being for for work - not by a doctor but by a physiotherapist DWP had employed. Honestly, this lady is SO frail. A bag of bones. Any one can tell she is very close to death. if you googled hr condition it states it is a terminal condition The appeal took 2 minutes. The doctor was appalled and gave her full PIP.

Nizuc - But that's not what they're doing, they're not simply evaluating people's claims. They're just making stuff up, lying and distorting facts beyond belief. On my report the assessor wrote answers to questions that they hadn't even asked me.
And evidence, don't make me laugh. They just ignore any evidence you provide. Not to mention their obsession with "recent evidence." To them an autism diagnosis from childhood and all the paperwork that comes with it isn't good enough. Which makes no sense at all, unless of course they really believe that autism and other developmental disorders really can be cured.

It's quite illuminating to see the callousness of a Tory supporter in action, cheers 10degrees.

DetectiveGoren agree, they completely lie, twist things and make things up. And deliberately disregarded and refused to take copies of evidence I provided. Said it wasn't necessary. Then used that against me.

They were fine and fair with DH. He got a home visit He has breathing difficulties COPD ischemic heart disease and arthritis.

The problems and discrimination we have encountered have been from the housing association we rent from.

I think the difficulty isn't only in the assessment process for PIP but helping people to understand that process, so that the right people get the right level of help at the right time. My mother, for example, has had a very severe 'bipolar crash' which led to a prolonged inpatient stay in hospital, and sadly she hasn't made any meaningful recovery since. Due to her resultant disability, she meets the criteria for both high rate care and high rate mobility. But to get her through the process painlessly, I made sure that I answered each question fully, with examples of day to day living, what she couldn't do, why she couldn't do it, what would happen if she attempted to do it, or what would happen if she was left without help. I included letters from her Consultant, prescriptions, Social Services letters, Occupational Therapy letters, etc. I used her CPN as her contact. She got through the process on a paper assessment, so didn't even need to go for a visit for face to face assessment.

However, other very unwell people are turned down and then awarded on appeal, so there are no guarantees.

This government is not doing enough for disabled people, but comparing them to the Third Reich is disgusting and the OP should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

goo.gl/images/sjbHwU

The difference between all things being equal, and true equality. Equality isn't about assuming all can do the same things from the same starting point. It's about recognising that people have different starting points and working out what needs to be done to allow everyone access to the same opportunities. In this case, the same opportunity to live a quality life.

Dontsweatthelittlestuff because not everyone has a Mcmillan advisor, or indeed any advisor. CAB often don't have specialist benefit advisors, legal aid was removed for benefit appeals in 2013 so people like me were redundant, and the law centres struggled for the same reason. It's difficult to get good legal advice for benefits anywhere outside of London and there are swathes of the country where there is no available advice let alone an advocate to speak at a tribunal for you. And without the benefit of an advocate some tribunals get it wrong. I used to do upper tribunal appeals too for which to succeed there needs to have been an error in law, and there are very few advocates to take these on now. It's bloody awful what this government is doing.

Lougle - It's all well and good saying people should be helped to understand the process, but as you say, what happens when there's no-one there to help someone? And some people because of their disability simply won't be able to understand all of this.
Where I live there's two options for support with PIP claims, the very overworked CAB, and an advocacy service that only helps those with learning difficulties. There was a service that supported autistic adults (regardless of IQ level), which recently had it's government funding cut, the cynic in me thinks it was because they were too good at what they were doing - they won every single one of their appeals, including mine. Which means I'll be dealing with my next claim all by myself, which most likely will mean another tribunal.

But getting the level of support you need and are entitled to shouldnt't be dependant on knowing how the system works. From my own experiences understanding the system means going to a pointless face to face assessment, waiting to see their report and then pointlessly correcting the lies for a mandatory reconsideration. And then finally waiting for a tribunal where all of that will be overturned and you get the money backdated. Until it all starts over again.

Why should people have to understand the system, why should we have to prepare for an assessor telling bare-faced lies? Why should we have to accept that they will ignore and deny the existence of the evidence we've provided?

It's interesting to contrast the experience I had with that of someone I know, the difference being I was alone in the room with the PIP assessor and they had a support worker with them. The assessor still made some absurd statements about the latter person, but none of the bare-faced lies that were in my report. So they only lie when they feel like they can get away with it, because they presume what, that we're too stupid or helpless to appeal and contradict their lies?
I'm genuinely curious about the mentality and mindset of the people who work for Capita and ATOS, not to mention the DWP decision makers who rubber stamp the reports full of lies and ignore the mandatory reconsideration requests. I'm very curious how they justify to themselves sitting down with a person and twisting every single word they say. And I'm even more curious about the mindset of the people who refuse to believe that this is happening.

Joe if you get a prognosis of 6 months or less you will get an alternative referral to McMillan. You can refuse them if you wish but the offer is there. You don’t even need to contact them as they will contact you upon the referral.