To think the deliberate targeting of disabled people is idealogical and reminiscent of the 3rd reich?

[malificent7]

Friends and I were discussing the current government's treatment of the disabled and I heard ANOTHER harrowing story. Her friends has multiple disabilities, cannot walk and relies on painkillers to make life tolerable. After her last assessment this woman was deemed fit to work and was told by a non medical professional (AKA administrator) that she didn't need medication. Her financial support was removed and now she has nothing whilst she stages an appeal.

The trouble is the government has scrapped a scheme which got disabled people into work. My good friend's sister has quite severe learning disabilities but was very happy in her job in a café until the government scrapped the scheme. Another thing we can thank Cameron for. She was devastated and wanted to work as it gave her self esteem.

So we have double standards here. We are being told to get jobs or loose benefits yet jobs are being cut.

AIBU to feel that humanity has learned nothing from history lessons at school and during a financial crisis we are keen to scapegoat others (disabled, jews etc.) Seems like most people don't want to help others as 'they work hard and why should they pay taxes?'

Someone will probably come along to say that Corbyn is an anti semite but the Nazis were anti disabled and wanted to squeeze them out of existence. So are the Tories. Is this an example of political gaslighting , cognitive dissonance or projection I wonder?

People are so blinkered to make the actions of the Nazis just about Jewish people. By far they were the largest group targeted but disabled people, gays, Romany people, elderly people also died in their thousands too.

It's really dangerous and misguided to try to automatically disqualify any comparison to Nazi Germany, to make out that the Nazis were unique and almost supernatural in their wickedness.

They weren't. They were bog standard human beings who committed horrendously evil crimes against other human beings, due to a particular set of circumstances.

Who on earth is being conditioned into thinking that it's OK for disabled people to die? Where on earth do you get that idea Absentminded?
It seems to me that you think that only socialists have disabled family , oddly just as many Conservatives will have a disabled family member so there is absolutely no reason for anyone to be 'conditioned ' into regarding the death of a disabled person as normal.

I "get that idea" from the fact that thousands of disabled people are dying in this very country, the UK, right now - and that this is being met with apathy in the main.

The DWP continue to carry out their brutal stripping of resources from disabled people with impunity. Nothing happens. No moves to fix the situation. It is being tolerated by the majority of society.

dying in hospital beds
Sorry Rebecca, what were you saying...

Plenty more stories like that, too.

But where are these fact Absentminded?

The United Nations seem to think there is a very real problem in the manner in which our current government are treating our disabled.

www.bbc.com/news/uk-37899305

AbsentmindedWoman

There is a difference between implementing a policy where you don’t care if people die, and implementing a policy which has industrial murder as it’s base.

There are a lot of things reminding me of the Third Reich at the moment.

I understand there have been many appalling examples of how PIP has been implemented but to compare the Govenrment to the Nazis (or even worse than them) is exaggeration in the extreme....

The Nazis made a deliberate policy of exterminating disabled people. No rights, no healthcare, no support.

The Government spends £15bn+ in PIPs to support disabled people, as well as free healthcare and disability rights legislation.

The amount for PIPs may not be enough and the implementation may have very poor, but a comparison with the Nazis is bizarre!

but a comparison with the Nazis is bizarre!
It really isn't. I understand that because of what we have been taught and the way we have been taught it's become an 'untouchable' comparison, but actually, the longer we make it so, the more likely it is to recur. If we can't discuss it, point out what is happening, are continually shut down because 'of history', we are destined to allow this to repeat and the way in which it is repeated, a benign fall or a deliberate targeting is almost irrelevant, the fact is it is happening and those having a knee jerk reaction to the preservation of a history are allowing that.

Barnaby again do you think it started out like that?

There is a massive difference between having a benefits system which isn't working as well as it should and the idea that a particular political party has an ideology which favours the extermination of venerable individuals. Massive difference.

And you think the anti disability and benefits propaganda in the press is coincidence also, with the rise in hate crime towards disabled people?

It's happening to other groups too based on race and or religion. It's all just coincidental?

sen for someone with a disabled son and who works with "the disabled", your lack of empathy is chilling.

I agree that it's unhelpful having a knee-jerk reaction to any mention of the Nazi party. They didn't start by exterminating six million people. They started with the mindset that certain groups, be they Jewish people, disabled people, gay people, Romany, were less worthy. They then systematically put in place the bureaucracy to enforce those views.

There have been cases of disabled people in this country, in the last couple of years, dying penniless. Killing themselves. Malnourished, freezing and unable to eat properly.
The system is a Kafkaesque nightmare. If you're "lucky" enough to have a condition that meets the particular, very rigid framework they have set up, AND someone doesn't decide to lie and twist things on your claim form, then you'll maybe be okay.
There are many who are ill, in pain, very obviously unable to work and yet don't get awarded as the framework asks them the wrong questions.
Then they get nothing. Despite letters from their gps and consultants. Despite all medical evidence, an unqualified person rejects their claim.

Yes of course people need to be assessed before being awarded sickness related benefits but it should be done
a) by a trained medical professional
b) fairly, not through a system where there are targets to reject a percentage of claims.

I think they just don’t care. I think they worry more about what the Daily Mail thinks than about welfare of sick and disabled people, and so they have to be ‘tough’ on disabled people because, according to the DM lots of people are ‘faking’ and could work really.

The system is entirely set up on the assumption that ill and disabled people are faking and must be found out, rather than helping people into work where it is possible. I think it’s not only cruel and unfair but also expensive – honestly, a trust-based system which relied on a judgement from a person’s GP and offered help with what people say they need help with, would be cheaper and more effective because you wouldn’t be paying bullshitters like ATOS millions to generate the conclusion you demand and then have to deal with appeals. Eg ‘Sarah has a chronic fatigue illness – although on some days she is fully able, on many days she is bedbound and therefore cannot be expected to hold a regular job as she is incapacitated too much of the time for an employer to be able to reasonably adjust, so she should receive benefits’; ‘Bob had a minor injury a few years ago but is fine no and there’s no reason for him not to work’; ‘Mo has severe anxiety; it may be possible for him to work if a very low-stress job that doesn’t involve dealing with the public can be found, but unless and until that is possible, he should receive benefits’ etc

Ffs people the Nazis did not go stright to killing actaully read the history of the late 1920s and early 1930s and you will see how this goverment compares.

Scapgoating other (now disabled) check.
Using the media to demonise a certain group in society (disabled are scrounges idogoloy) check.

Removing rights of targeted group (trying to get disabled people to work for less / free) not quite there yet the ideology has not yet been accepted for this yet but i think it might if it keeps going.

Remeber the Nazis did not start killing people until late 1930s look at the build up to that and you WILL see parallels...

What happened under the Nazis should be a warning not to repeat history, and a terrifying study in human psychology to show just how much a populace will accept with the right propaganda.

It absolutely should not be taboo to draw parallels.

Also the attempts to scrap the human rights act further disempowering disabled people.

Well the Nazi's didn't go straight in with the death camps did they. The financial and political climate at the time led to certain groups being scapegoated and it snowballed from there. People just don't like the scales to be removed from their eyes. You have to wonder what the political agenda is if the disabled are being financially penalised whilst the rich are being sheltered.
For me it echoes the thread about illness being seen as a moral failing. I really do feel that some politicians think this. The Tories see wealth acquisition as a sign of superiority or moral integrity.
I just wonder how many people pay attention during History lessons (and how many people actually care.)

I really don't think there is any scapegoating of the disabled in the way you are suggesting. I think there is more emphasis on publicising the incidents where the system goes wrong so people are talking about disability more. I don't think there would ever be an anti Zionist threat from the government in this country, so much has been made of the possible anti Jewish sentiment within the labour party it's never going to be tolerated.
Malificent - where do you get the idea that 'Tories see wealth acquisition as a sign of superiority or moral integrity' - what is that about? You obviously don't know any Tories and have been completely indoctrinated into this weird belief that Tories are this all evil being.

So nice of you to refer to 'the' disabled like we're a homogeneous mass.

So nice of you to dismiss our lives experience too. Cheers for that.

Some people are so fucking oblivious.

More of the usual dross paid for and brought to you courtesy of the Labour Party, if there is such a thing any more.

FYI I had far more problems claiming DLA when we had a Labour government than a Conservative one. I am not suggesting that some people have not been incorrectly dealt with but it's nothing new.

Comparing the situation to the 3rd Reich makes you sound like an idiot quite frankly and if you knew ANYTHING of what they did you would not make such a ludicrous comparison.

Take offence if you like Bishop just because of one word I used. You have no idea what my experience is with having a disability or any disabled person, just because I used the word 'the' I am 'so fucking obvious' am I , dear me get over yourself.