Secondary school uniform

[Bumbelinadance]

AIBU to say I just kind of feel the focus should be on educating children not their appearance . Ds just started secondary school Who decided a fully buttoned up to the top button shirt and tie was required
...? He hates how that feels all day. Restricting !
He is in a regular state school , yet his uniform was so expensive my parents Kindly stepped in

Surely it up up to the children to decide what path they go down as adults surely ?They can suit it and boot it if they choose to go into a profession where a certain dress code is required .
Comfortable trousers or joggers / skirts if preferred at a reasonable price and a school logo jumper might shift the focus from appearance to learning

I am all for a ban on designer logos and trainers to avoid a haves / have nots scenario
But I really dont get the English uniform obsession

Also I feel hugely amazed by our teachers and support them fully , feel the profession like most of our key workers ( ambulance drivers, nurses , police etc) is underpaid and under appreciated
But I don’t think their job should be to enforce a terribly old fashioned view that an 11 year old should wear a blazer. I also feel very strongly my child should be allowed to express himself as he wishes with his hairstyle and dress PROVIDED HE REMAINS POLITE AND RESPECTFUL TO HIS TEACHERS / ADULTS and meets the schools expectations with academic effort and behaviour
If he wants tramlines in his hair how does that affect whether he gets an a or a d grade ..?

They are there to learn
Achieve their potential
Be told they can be an astronaught if they work hard enough
Not told their appearance defines them

It isn’t really accepted in the workplace so why is it happening in our schools ...?

Myfrei Ds in the USA send their kids to school in clothes they are comfortable in ,so they can focus on learning

Kill? Pull!

Why would you not allow a child to use the toilet if they need it during class? Yes, if someone is taking the mick then I can see the reasoning but otherwise it just appears unkind. I can't see any child learning much if all they can concentrate on is not pissing themselves in front of their classmates.

I had to wear a fully buttoned up shirt with a tie for 11 years at school, from age 5 to age 16. I have never once worn anything similar in the subsequent 44 years! I hate the feeling of something close around my neck.

So, I do empathise with all the poor little kids who have to wear stiff collars and ties these days.

My little grandchildren wear polo shirts, which are far more comfortable and also much easier for a small child to manage when it comes to dressing and undressing.

Why would you not allow a child to use the toilet if they need it during class?

If a 10/11 year old cannot hold his/her bladder for 2 hours max there really isn't much hope. They do have breaks.

If a 10/11 year old cannot hold his/her bladder for 2 hours max there really isn't much hope.

Much hope of what sorry? I don’t really understand what you mean. Can you please clarify?

If a 10/11 year old cannot hold his/her bladder for 2 hours max there really isn't much hope.

I'm sorry, I don't understand? What is it about a child that may find themselves needing the toilet during class, perhaps once or twice across an academic year say, that means there isn't much hope? Much hope for what?

Is there a kind of glory in being able to hang on for two hours? And if they are not able to, what failing in character is that attributable to?

That seems awfully general and vague bek. If you refuse to allow a child to use the toilet, do they acquire the skills to get on in life?

Getting on in life? Because they need a wee? They’re 11 yos, not teachers.

I would expect a teacher to use the toilet if they find themselves in that position and not piss themselves in front of their students.

@pointythings we lived in Holland for 5 years with DCs at the local school. Totally agree with you about school uniform.

No school uniform means no fight about what to wear. If your DC wants to go to school dressed as a unicorn then that's fine. If it gets them out of your door and in through the school gate what is the problem?

If a 10/11 year old cannot hold his/her bladder for 2 hours max there really isn't much hope So your one of those teachers - poor kids!

And beksyt didn’t you just say they shouldn’t have any say in what they wear “because they’re 11”? Yet you say they should be able to control when they need a wee just like an adult?

Btw, my dh has a first class integrated masters degree in engineering from a highly regarded university. He has a more than decent job and salary etc, but he definitely wouldn’t hold a wee for 2 hours if he needed to go! I’m basically a camel and will go for 8 hours at work without using the loo if I have to. I have my serious doubts about the correlation between being able to hold a wee and “getting on in life”.

I would expect a teacher to use the toilet if they find themselves in that position and not piss themselves in front of their students.

Who would watch the kids?

They learn to plan. I have already had it in week one, a girl returning from lunch and then 2 minutes later asking for the loo. She didn't wet herself and waited till hometime

So your one of those teachers - poor kids!

What teachers?

Oh come on, how uncomfortable is a short and tie, I wore I've from reception class, they're not asking him to wear a wool sack! Even lots of those in jobs without uniforms wear a shirt and tie for work, most employers have some kind of dress code even if it's smart casual. I agree with PPs about the benefits of uniform as an equaliser, I also don't think it's expensive, it is an initial outlay but they will then get a full year's use out of those clothes, if they wore their own you'd be buying a lot more than five outfits for the year, and your idea of joggers etc, firstly it's scruffy, secondly you're then asking teachers to police that dress code so it doesn't make life easier for them. Children need to learn sometimes in life there are rules to be followed even if you don't like them, and also to be able to express their individuality and personality away from their physical appearance.

She didn't wet herself and waited till hometime

Nice of you to take that risk for her on her behalf. How kind.

Who would watch the kids? My kids were left several times without a teacher in Year 6. Sometimes the teacher next door would keep an ear out.

I had a few classes where the teacher just didn't show up in secondary school, or showed up five minutes late. Funnily enough we hadn’t descended into Lord of the Flies territory and eaten each other. I never even thought to mention it to my parents.

And anyway, teachers are adults.

I get saying “you need to go at lunch in the future” or giving them extra reading to make up the few minutes they’ve missed if they go to the loo mid class. But a flat “no you can’t” sounds arbitrary and a little controlling.

What teachers?

Officious, self-important teachers, too busy being right to be kind.

Officious, self-important teachers, too busy being right to be kind.
Who said I am not kind?

What teachers? The type that doesn't allow kids to go to the toilet when needed.

Tbf, though that assessment by element was a tad close to the bone... you aren’t coming across as having buckets of empathy for your pupils beksyt. “If they can’t hold their bladders for two hours max at 11yo I don’t hold out much hope of them getting on in life”. Sorry, but I can’t help but hear that in a Delores Umbridge voice .

The thing is OP on some levels I agree with you. Children and young people should be free to wear what is comfy. However. A shirt and tie isn’t uncomfortable. If they are you’ve bought the wrong size.

And complete freedom would just end with students pushing and pushing to see what they can feet away with. Where do you draw the line? Mankinis? Lads rocking up in just shorts and flip flops because it’s hot.

Uniforms are designed to cover health and safety requirements (closed toe shoes, majority of skin covered for science class requirements. No risk of students wearing most expensive clothes on art days. Hair neat and tied back so no risk of entanglement. So having a singular uniform works in that respect.

If you want your child to have a certain freedom with regards to hair style/shoe type/ skirt length etc the onus is on you to find a school community that allows this. If you can’t or won’t then when you join a school community you honour its existing code and conduct as anyone joining a new society should.

Mine loves his blazer, especially the pockets. Hates jumpers and sweatshirts, he won't wear anything that you have to pull over your head and can't unzip when you feel a bit hot. He prefers a polo to a button up shirt and tie though.

I think secondary uniforms should be more relaxed, such as a polo with a choice of blazer, jumper, or both, shorts or trousers. More like primary uniforms.