Secondary school uniform

[Bumbelinadance]

AIBU to say I just kind of feel the focus should be on educating children not their appearance . Ds just started secondary school Who decided a fully buttoned up to the top button shirt and tie was required
...? He hates how that feels all day. Restricting !
He is in a regular state school , yet his uniform was so expensive my parents Kindly stepped in

Surely it up up to the children to decide what path they go down as adults surely ?They can suit it and boot it if they choose to go into a profession where a certain dress code is required .
Comfortable trousers or joggers / skirts if preferred at a reasonable price and a school logo jumper might shift the focus from appearance to learning

I am all for a ban on designer logos and trainers to avoid a haves / have nots scenario
But I really dont get the English uniform obsession

Also I feel hugely amazed by our teachers and support them fully , feel the profession like most of our key workers ( ambulance drivers, nurses , police etc) is underpaid and under appreciated
But I don’t think their job should be to enforce a terribly old fashioned view that an 11 year old should wear a blazer. I also feel very strongly my child should be allowed to express himself as he wishes with his hairstyle and dress PROVIDED HE REMAINS POLITE AND RESPECTFUL TO HIS TEACHERS / ADULTS and meets the schools expectations with academic effort and behaviour
If he wants tramlines in his hair how does that affect whether he gets an a or a d grade ..?

They are there to learn
Achieve their potential
Be told they can be an astronaught if they work hard enough
Not told their appearance defines them

It isn’t really accepted in the workplace so why is it happening in our schools ...?

Myfrei Ds in the USA send their kids to school in clothes they are comfortable in ,so they can focus on learning

I love school uniform because it takes away the decision as to what to wear every day. Whether it's uniform or not DC need to learn to look smart for working. This way we don't need to argue about what smart means.

Also I only need to buy a few sets of nice and more expensive clothes for weekends and holidays.

I've found uniform to be good value as they're really well made. Primary school jumpers got passed down as they still looked great so I got about 5 years of everyday wear from each.

DS and DH only had one blazer, one jumper and one pair of trousers or skirt each washed at the end of the week. I only needed to buy two lots of each for the 5 years that they were at secondary school. Considering that again they're worn every day for 40 weeks of the year in terms of cost per wear I think that's pretty amazing. None of their other clothes last nearly so well.

And lastly me. I love wearing uniform. When I worked in banks it made life so much easier not having to think of clothes. So now I work somewhere without uniform I've made my own - a couple of identical suits and six identical tops. I just grab and go. It's wonderful!

I had to dress far more smartly at school than i ever have at work.

I didn't mind my school unform, we had to wear shirt, blazer and skirt but we did all wear proper school shoes. I don't think trainers are appropriate.

Titsywoo

Exactly. Kids will find anything to focus on uniform or not.

There was another similar thread yesterday about uniform. Why choose to send you child to a school if you don't want to follow the school dress code? My kids have been in proper shirts and ties (not the elasticated ones either) since age 4. They could tie their own at 4. I hate polo shirts and sweatshirts. I think they look scruffy. As a child I always felt more focused when in uniform than on "mufty" days. But then I've always loved a uniform.

I am supportive of uniform at secondary level at least, providing it is able to be bought from a number of suppliers and simple, not extending to things such as the make of shoes or bags. A school jumper or sweatshirt can be uniform, not necessarily a blazer.

My son's school changed uniform last year from polos and sweatshirts to shirts, blazers and ties. I fucking hate it, the proper shirts make him sweat, not great for a self conscious teen! He's so uncomfortable

I agree with having a uniform so that they all dress the same but hate blazers shirts and ties. Why do they have to look like mini executives off to a board meeting? I would have a polo shirt in school colour, plain black trousers, plain black shoes for all. Comfy and practical.

I'm all for uniform btw, just think comfort and practicality should be a priority rather than trying to make then look like mini adults.

Cross post Toysboys

Why choose to send you child to a school if you don't want to follow the school dress code? I don't want to follow the school dress code but we are not lucky enough to have an alternative to strict uniform schools within 20 miles, so we do follow the school dress code - but it is not a choice and all you posters who keep going on about choice - lucky you - in many areas of the country school choice is a fallacy, you take your local school.

Feel sorry for your son Redsky.

I am sort of with you on this OP. While I agree there should be some sort of uniform, I believe it should be a basic requirement eg black /grey skirt/trousers, black sweater and white shirt/blouse. Does it really matter if the top button is fastened, the shoes have a tiny embellishment or the skirt too long, trousers too flared? My DD went to an academy that was stricter that a private school. I got fed up with hearing teachers complain that they were wasting half the lesson ensuring the uniform code was followed. Well just get on a teach then. The school would harp on about them merely preparing children for the world of work, but they had teachers with outlandishly dyed hair, or wearing mini skirts etc ( which I have absolutely no issue with because hey, I don't judge people on their appearance) but if anybody queried this they would say that they choose staff for their quality of work not their appearance! Total double standards.

Wankee Mine too although they did have elasticated ties in reception. They were allowed to wear a polo shirt for the last half of the summer term but most kids weren't that bothered as they were so used to wearing a shirt and tie although they were happy to have shorts and not trousers on!

I love school uniform, takes out all the stress of what to wear and competing with other kids, wearing the top brands, etc.

When our kids grow up and go for interviews the employer isn't going to ask, or care, what they wore to school. They are going to ask to see exam results so surely that should be the priority for schools to get right.

I would like to be n the 'no uniform , let them express themselves camp' but I think I come down on the other side.
Uniform gives pupils a sense of belonging and being part of the team. It reduces judgement on appearance and wealth. It reinforces the message that School (like the work place)has a purpose for which one should dress the part. It reduces stress( for most) for children and particular teenagers in that they don't have to think or worry about what to put on in the morning.in the same vein it helps to teach the benefits of routine and planning .it is also culturally normal in the UK .Personally , I find it a lot less hassle to buy 5 white shirt/ 2 skirts or trousers / a pair of school shoes / 2 jumpers or cardigans and a blazer every few years( shoes more often) than trying to keep up with DCs demands for what they 'need' regarding clothes .(memories of DD at sixth form when there always seemed to be some sort of new requirement when she had no uniform)
A few years ago a movement towards more formal uniform started when it was seen as one of the small changes that added together lead to the huge improvement in academic and social improvement in certain failing London schools. There has been a rush ever since to get everyone into blazers.
If my academically able, highly motivated child from an engaged family went to school in tracksuit and trainers he would do well and I could easily sit smugly on the side of 'no uniform allowing him to develop as a person in his own way and look where it's got him' iyswim .if , however, there are possible advantages to be gained for the population as a whole then I think we should continue with uniforms until proven otherwise.
Ps totally agree that blazers on all the time is nutty my DC have always had the option to remove blazer if hot and indeed to leave it at home with tie in a heatwave if School makes an edict.

Uniform is all about making sure the kids all look the same and that school looks professional. It is called standards.

As for going to the toilet, learn to cross your legs until break time. I never let my year 6 class go.

As for going to the toilet, learn to cross your legs until break time. I never let my year 6 class go.

I do hope you make exceptions for children with health issues, because if you do not, you are 1) a not very nice person and 2) in contravention of the Disability Discrimination Act...

I am firmly in the non uniform camp. I'm from Holland where there is no school uniform. Somehow paramedics, nurses and police manage to wear appropriate clothing over there, all this without having been drilled in uniform for years... British children are no more stupid than those in other countries - they do not need years of uniform to learn how to dress appropriately for work. If nothing else, that failure to get the job and the feedback from the interview will drive the lesson home.

I accept that by living in the UK, I have to go with the rules in my local schools. I do - neither of my DDs have ever had anything but commendations for correct uniform. But I don't have to like it and I do think it's conformity-obsessed bollocks.

I agree with you op.

as long as kids (and yes they are kids at 11) are polite and respectful they should be allowed to dress, and wear their hair in any way they choose?
That way madness lies!

I totally disagree with this and have no idea why children as young as 11 shouldn’t have some say in how they’re dressed . In many other countries, children do wear what they want at school. No madness as far as I can tell!

Completely agree with what you just said pointy. When my dcs start school, we’ll make sure they have the right uniform, but it doesn’t mean I agree with it. I think it’s a heap of shite tbh. Shite I’ll conform too, but shite all the same.

I do hope you make exceptions for children with health issues, because if you do not, you are 1) a not very nice person and 2) in contravention of the Disability Discrimination Act...

Children who have a doctor's note are not stopped from going.

I hate school uniforms. They give both parents and children stress. Primary school children should definitely have no uniform. They aren't responsible for buying their own clothes at that age so it's not like they will wear something stupid unless their parents have bought them that in the first place. With no uniform 99% of the children would be dressed in leggings /tracky bottoms and tshirts and trainers. What is so terrible about that. (the 1% would be the kid that comes in a Disney Princess dress - but soon realises they can't really run around as well or paint etc - a good life lesson in choosing your clothes!). As for secondary school. Well if you can't experiment with clothing at that age surely that's a terrible thing. Clothing is important - choosing what suits you, what is comfy, how peoples opinion/first impression of you will be affected by what you wear, what is practical clothes for the weather/what you are doing that day? The whole bullying over designer stuff really isn't a massive thing - most kids who wear labelled stuff will have got it cheap at Sports Direct anyway. Perhaps all Year 7s should do a study on what makes something a 'designer' piece of clothing - all clothing has to be designed by someone. All those primark tshirts don't appear by magic. It could be an interesting subject to do and be fun and creative by having a 'fashion' show. Pretty much by the end of year 7 no one would give a frig what you wear. And by Year 11 teens will have hopefully learned that what you wear needs to vary for the situation you are in (smart dress for Job Interview/something light fitting and cool for when you are working in a hot non air conditioned building /comfy shoes if you are on your feet all day etc). Many jobs require uniform. The uniform is usually provided. It's purpose varies. Sometimes safety. Sometimes just to identitfy you are staff. Sometimes because you have to carry certain equipment with you. But very few jobs actually expect the whole shirt/tie/blazer nonsense and even then you usually have a bit of a choice of colour of socks and if you want to put a hair clip in your hair.

I totally disagree with this and have no idea why children as young as 11 shouldn’t have some say in how they’re dressed

They are 11 that is why. Bullying could be an issue too.

Often on these types of threads someone will pop up with you knew what the rules were or home educate if you dont like it

The reality is that for very many parents there isnt a choice about schools (only one school in the town) and home ed isnt an option (dont have the knowledge or experience to provide an adequate education).

If schools are going to have a uniform they need to look a lot more to practicality and wearability. Black polyester clothes and shiny office shoes look fine for the school brochure or on day 1 but just dont last. They are not fit for the rigours of a school day.

I'm a fan of school uniform for loads of reasons. But I think you have two issues going on here - the expense, and the restrictions.

I'm boggled at the amount of expensive uniform which some parents are expected to buy as no schools I know of in my part of Scotland have that requirements. Kids' secondary school requires a blazer (£30) and a tie (£5). Apart from that it's white shirts, black trousers/skirt which you can get anywhere.. There are no jumpers, polo shirts, bags, gym kit with the school logo available to buy even if you wanted to. PE kit rule is "sports clothing, no football shirts, no offensive slogans". And this is in a state school which is consistently high performing.

Most workplaces have basic standards of dress which people have to meet - whether that be wearing a uniform, safety equipment, having your hair tied back, or being suited and booted. Teachers are there to teach kids, not spend hours every day explaining to children why their flappy sleeved blouse might be the latest trend but is a danger in the science lab. Or explaining to a mother why stilettoes aren't the best choice for a day walking around school. Having a basic uniform dress code gets round that.

And on the America thing, my niece is at a school in the states which has a "khakis and polo shirt" dress code. Get your chinos/khaki trousers from wherever you'd like, and wear whatever colour of polo shirt you want, but that's the dress code for both boys and girls.

They are 11 that is why. Bullying could be an issue too.

The only argument which remotely holds any water is the bullying one. But, as pps have said, it’s already obvious who the ‘poor’ / untrendy kids are at secondary school. Things like hair styles and shoes, bags, secondhand uniform singles them out as it is. Then non uniform days bring out the absolute worst with everyone desperate to make a statement. If it was just every day, I think there is something in the argument that children would just kill on jeans and a tshirt instead of treating it like London Fashion Week.

As for “because they’re 11” . My dd chooses her clothes and she’s 3. So far nobody has gone “mad”.