To think Rihanna is a complete and utter fraud!?

[MissionItsPossible]

Now I wasn’t that naive to think that people get songs written for them. I knew Cathryn Dennis wrote Britney Spears ‘Toxic’ for Kylie Minogue and that ‘Baby one more time’ was written for TLC but I thought it meant just that: songwriting. I have today found original demos and can’t believe the songs sound exactly the same with a word or two changed so the artist can say they wrote it. I singled out Rihanna as she’s the main culprit on the YouTube videos I found but most of them are at it. I didn’t know the melody and the tune and basically the entire song gets created for them. Am I the only person who didn’t know this? I think most of these demos sound better than her versions!

(You have to copy and paste to listen to the original ‘Umbrella’ as MN only allows 3 videos, I think)

I better add that this is lighthearted before somebody takes it a little too seriously!

I didn't know she'd claimed to write them?

I think it's called 'change a word and get a third (of the royalties)'

Yeah it's poor form and makes me take her less seriously than say Adele but I don't care, I like her image and the songs she puts out generally (apart from her last album - shockingly shit).

And the frequency she put out music until recently I'm not surprised, I couldn't have made hit after hit by myself.

Not the fact she didn’t write it that surprised me, LDN, the fact that basically the songs are made for her. I thought only lyrics were bought and then her producers would create a song out of it. I keep referring to her but there’s loads of examples for other artists on YouTube too

Can’t see anywhere that claims she write those songs though.

I don't think she's ever said she's written all her songs, but it's sort of like lying by omission isn't it, when it's the majority of the work you release under your name?

I don’t think she’s ever claimed to have written her own songs. In fact she was quite open about the fact that Calvin harris and Taylor Swift wrote ‘This is what you came for’. Most pop singers don’t write the songs they sing. Elvis didn’t write any of his songs. So yes, you are the only person to not know that other people wrote pop singers songs.

Have you not heard of Stock Aitkin and Waterman? Motown? Did you think Idina Medell actual wrote ‘Let it Go’ from Frozen??! They employee some people to write and some people to sing. Some people sing their own material, they are called ‘singer-songwriters’.

Oh @9amtrain, whenever I see your name I always think of flamethrowers

With modern singers I just automatically assume they haven't written the song, which is prejudiced really.

Rihanna seems ok

My understanding is songwriters write the lyrics and tune and the singers just sing them.

So yes, you are the only person to not know that other people wrote pop singers songs.

I did know that! It was the first line of my OP!

It's standard for the singers just to sing the songs, I would imagine this happens most of the time.

I can't say I have ever thought of Rihanna as a songwriter. I always thought she just sung songs written for her by other people? She is very much a 'performer' isn't she?

Thing is, there have been a lot of people who have been famous but not rich and even ended up owing their record companies because they weren't songwriters. In the days of Ella Fitzgerald or Frank Sinatra, no one cared that they didn't write their own songs and they could make money out of being a performer. Until performers can put on successful tours, they won't make a bean unless they're getting royalties and there are a lot of upfront costs. It's just good business.

missionitspossible I actually read your op properly

I thought some songwriters wrote songs with an artist in mind
I didn't know the song is basically handed to some on a plate

Same with Diamonds in the Sky- written by Sia

sia is reported to say she was surprised that Rhianna stuck so closely to the original

Most top pop songs are written by committee. The most writers I’ve heard of on one song, maybe ‘Firework’ by Katie Perry, can’t remember, had 11 writers. Demi Lavato’s last album had 28 writers. There are also formulas which follow algorithms to increase the likelihood of a hit.

Yes of course. It's very rare for pop stars to write their own songs, hence why people talk about it when they do (i.e. Taylor Swift, Adele). Even Taylor Swift will work with songwriters to create an album and improve her own ideas, often drastically changing them in the process. You can be credited as a songwriter if you're simply in the same room as the songwriting process, you don't even have to input a word.

Most big pop songs will have been pitched to numerous stars before they find a home. You can sometimes find demos of stars singing songs that went on to be hits for someone else.

A few songwriters make big bucks - once you have a reputation publishers want more. Most get a few cuts in their careers, and you just hope it's a hit and makes you enough to be worth the slog. There are millions of brilliant but unpublished demos out there, just waiting for someone to put them with the right singer and create a hit. (And a hell of a lot of dross too... a lot of which gets into the charts.)

My partner writes music - he tried for a few years to get into the J-pop/K-pop scene, which can be very lucrative. Unfortunately nothing came of it and now he's too busy, but his writing partner has had some success.

Sorry OP I’m genuinely not understanding what you are getting at.

Did you think lyrics were bought and then put to music by the artist?
Or something else?

As a PP said, the singer/songwriter thing is a modern concept. There used to be “standards”, people would record their own versions of songs that were very much out there in the public sphere already. There would be multiple versions of the same song in the charts. Nobody cared. The artist’s job is to sing it beautifully.
Not sure why it has to be different now? Yes some singers write their own songs but they tend to be of the more “down-to-earth” variety. A major star like rihanna is spending a lot of time and energy performing, looking great and staying at the top of social spheres and fashion to remain aspirational. All that takes a lot of energy, it’s just a different kind of output.

Wasn't Ed Sheeran's monstrosity "Shape of you" written for Rihanna? And she didn't want it? not surprised

Robbie Williams - well known for not writing his own songs.

Elton John - also doesn't write his own songs.

i could go on ...

I don’t understand how you think someone could write a song without a tune/melody?

@LanguidLobster Haha, the same for you 😂😂

I really like Sia, she's amazing. She writes all her own songs and everyone else's!

I think Natalie Imbruglia's 'Torn' was shocking.
She blatantly claimed to have written it, and then a previous recording was almost identical.
That upset me, because I thought she was a bloody good songwriter.

@FuckyDuzz well they would write the lyrics and then compose the music

Elvis never wrote any of his own songs. Someone else wrote them all for him and on one or two he claimed "co-writer credit" meaning he probably added a word or two of his own.
Diana Ross never ever wrote any of her songs at all neither did Whitney Houston.
Elton John provided the music for his songs but never wrote any lyrics.