Death penalty

[birthdayboo]

I don't quite understand the logic of people who want to murder people who have committed awful crimes.

I do understand saying you wish you could, verbalising the anger felt and not literally meaning you would actually carry out a killing yourself.

I don't understand when people swear they would actually kill

One horrific crime doesn't go away because you commit another horrific crime such as murder on the guilty?

I don't understand the death penalty either - I totally agree that life seems too good for some people, however it's still legalising murdering a human being to have the state kill them - so I just can't get my head around murdering someone because they murdered someone. Perhaps some form of voluntary self administered euthanasia being available by prescription to individuals who will never leave prison in their lifetime would be a solution to how much money it costs to house prisoners however it's not even like people get death penalty and it happens soon, they spend ages and have money spent on holding them prior to execution

is pointless

It’s always something that I have struggled to make my mind up about. I completely understand the argument against in that we are saying it’s wrong to kill so we are going to kill you. Also the stress that the family of the victim may have giving the thumbs up or down which I believe does happen in some countries.

I’m lucky I have never experienced that type of loss and hope I never do but I cannot honestly say that if it was someone I loved murdered in cold blood that I wouldn’t be sat there watching the murderer to suffer horribly as they are executed. I just don’t know and hope I never have too

I lost somebody due to careless driving. As in, he was late for the gym so tried to overtake, didn't give enough time so pulled back in & wiped my family member off the road. Dead instantly.

Altho it was not pre-meditated, cold blooded murder i could happily have seen him hang. Instead he got a 2 year driving ban, 100 hours community service & has to pay compensation. As a multi-millionaire points 1 & 3 meant nothing. He basically got away with it.

Having been through all that, i think the thing i have realised is that our justice system is not harsh enough. People who do shitty things tend not to get punished enough. Perhaps if our justice system toughened up a bit, fewer people would rave about the death penalty

Having been through all that, i think the thing i have realised is that our justice system is not harsh enough. People who do shitty things tend not to get punished enough Perhaps if our justice system toughened up a bit, fewer people would rave about the death penalty

Our justice system in Scotland needs a complete overhaul.

The executions at Nuremberg were botched and most of them died of suffocation rather than having their necks broken. It took a long time and they suffered.

I'd make the same argument against the miscarriage of justice point. Why are you okay with locking potentially innocent people up for their entire life? Yes, if any additional evidence comes to light, they could be acquitted but what if it doesn't? Chances are if it was not pick up when everyone was investigating, it won't be the future.

People probably argued the same years ago, but the advent of DNA testing has seen many people exonerated in America - some after 30 years or more.

Anyone who has time, I'd recommend watching this vid

And he's just 1 example.

People probably argued the same years ago, but the advent of DNA testing has seen many people exonerated in America - some after 30 years or more.

I know that but even if he had been given life, he would have still been locked up for 30 years which is not great.

And if he had been given life and the DNA evidence was not preserved as well, he would still be in prison. Hundreds of people will die in prison having not committed their crime, I don't see why that is seen as acceptable if killing an innocent man is not.

The chances of being an innocent person killed through capital punishment are minuscule compared all the other ways to die, even in Texas. I don't think it is an unreasonable risk to take to ensure people who are guilty of the worst crimes receive heavy punishment.

The death penalty is something I feel really strongly about. I am very anti for all the reasons outlined by PPs.

It isn’t justice - it’s vengeance, it is not applied equall - ethnic minorities, poor and uneducated people are far more likely to be wrongfully convicted, it isn’t a deterrent, criminals will go to greater lengths to cover their crimes and it only helps encourage brutality in society.

Has anyone ever watched the documentary 14 days in May? I watched it when I was a teenager and it haunted me.

For all those of you affected by horrible crimes, you have my utmost sympathy.

The Birminghan 6, Guildford 4 and many others would be dead.

There are so many miscarriages of justice: Maguire 7, M25 murderers, Judith Ward, Cardiff 3, Bridgewater 4, Winston Silcott, Sally Clark, Angela Cannings - the justice system can never be infallible.

And if killing people is wrong, the government definitely shouldn't be doing it.

The death penalty isn’t justice it’s revenge. And it’s used unequally and unfairly against people of colour, the poor, those who are left behind by society.
Its used against the innocent- so many miscarriages of justice have happened, our ‘authorities’ and politicians cannot be trusted to use the death penalty for ‘just’reasons.
Murdering someone because they murdered does not make anything better, if we behave as they do we’re as bad or worse as it truly is in cold blood.

Who says its not justice? Its not necessarily revenge, for many it is justice, an eye for an eye. E.g. You've done something so outside the pale of acceptability. Personally, I think incarcerating someone for the rest of their natural life is more cruel.

Hundreds of people will die in prison having not committed their crime, I don't see why that is seen as acceptable if killing an innocent man is not.

Innocent people dying in prison isn't acceptable, but it's less unacceptable in general population than in the stringent conditions of most death rows.

Beyond that, if you've killed someone you can't release or compensate them - you can't give a released person the time they had stolen from them but you can give them a chance at some kind of life. I shudder to think of the discussions which would have to take place after an executed inmate was found to be innocent:

1. Talk to the inmates family - excuse me Sir/Ma'am, we're here to tell you your son/daughter/partner/parent was actually innocent. We're very sorry for killing them and hope you didn't find watching them die strapped down to a gurney too traumatic...is there anything we can do to help?

1. Talk to the familiy/ies of the victim/s - excuse me Sir/Ma'am, it has come to our attention that we executed the wrong person for your husband/wife/parent/child's murder, their killer has been walking free for the last X years and has potentially reoffended. Will you support us in trying to execute the correct person this time? We hope you are not too badly affected by supporting and watching the death of an innocent person.

Although I can't imagine what it would take to make any state of the USA admit that they got it wrong.

Restricting it to the classes of murderer I have mentioned eg sexual murders of children and serial killers would in my view mitigate the risk of miscarriage of justice due to the evidence required to establish those crimes in the first place.

I just don’t see the point in keeping these people alive. They will be no loss to society whatsoever so why not just get rid.

Countries maintaining the death penalty are those with a very right wing ethos
Cherry - isn't China communist?

They will be no loss to society whatsoever so why not just get rid.

My view is that it transfers the weight of the sentence from the criminal to their family and along with a list of other objections, I don't believe it is right to do that - family can often still love the person while hating what they've done. Why create more surviving victims?

And what is wrong with revenge/ vengeance? Does it not ease the suffering of those wronged? Asking theoretically. That those executed after Nuremberg suffered will hardly bother anyone. I KNOW in any 'civilised' society the death penalty is abhorrent and nobody wants a Chop Chop square scenario but the need for revenge is very strong especially if the crime is brutal etc. If not religious why should people forgive? I would never forgive anyone child murder/abuse and would anyone else?

Would their being executed and presumably largely forgotten about by society at large in due course be worse for the family than them being locked up and the stigma that attaches to be relating to them/publicity when they get out etc?

Be relating = being related

Innocent people dying in prison isn't acceptable, but it's less unacceptable in general population than in the stringent conditions of most death rows.

1. Sorry your Dad was taken away from you at 10 years old for a crime he did not commit. It's a shame he spent the last 40 years of his life behind bars but at least you got to see him behind a glass screen once a month.

1. Just to let you know, that bloke who spent his life in prison didn't actually to it. The guy who did is dead now too so it's water under the bridge.

I don't see the fundamental difference, it is just a case of where you draw the line.

I don't get how people think the death penalty is abhorrent but life in prison is perfectly acceptable. It is not that much worse a punishment and some have even said it is less of one.

I know two 'career criminals' what a ridiculous label who never spent more than 3 or 4 months between prison stints. Their reasoning was pretty simple; inside they got 3 square meals, a bed, daily showers etc without having to think about cost or responsibility. Outside they had to worry about funding their basics.

I watched a show once about a prison in the US whereby the warden made life hard. Every inmate wore bright pink uniform, no home clothes. Showers were limited. Every inmate worked for their meals. The inmates had to earn visits. There was no pussyfooting around because they have human rights & should be treated with kid gloves

@Pissedoffdotcom
That’s just a straight up lie. Where do prisoners have to work for their meals? What happens if they don’t work for their meals? They don’t eat?

I assumed pissedoffdotcom is talking about Joe Arpaio's tent jails which have since been closed down. The prisoners did get to eat - two meals a day of green baloney, peanut butter, bread and 'slob'. It's not typical of US prisons.

I wouldn’t mind the death penalty being an option for the most extreme of cases- eg the most henious crimes (repeat sex abusers/serial killers, or something like the murders of Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom) and only once it is absolutely confirmed that the suspect is guilty (cctv, forensic evidence, phone records etc, ie not circumstantial).

However I can clearly see the negatives of the death penalty and the implications for wrongly charged offenders. Honestly, sometimes it just sucks hearing about how a victim has been horrifically abused, tortured, killed and treated with absolute disdain even after their death, and their killers are just being supported by society’s funds in prison where they may actually be having a really good time with their inmates/rewards etc. Also it’s beyond disgusting when they start to give their victim’s families false hope or awful tales for publicity or fame? So I suppose it is a bit of vigilante justice in that regard.

I studied the death penalty as part of my degree. On an emotional sense it makes sense but on a logical one it does not.

1. Cost is often cited in favour of the death penalty, but it is actually cheaper to keep someone in prison for life than it is to try someone in a capital court case, plus go through all the appeals and then keep them on death row.

2. It doesn't work as a detterent. States with the death penalty have just as high if not higher rates of violent crime than those without. It can often make situations worse - a criminal who knows he is going to get the death penalty has no incentive to stop killing more people; if they get caught they're dead anyway.

3. Innocent people do and have been wrongfully executed.

4. Correctional officers suffer siginificantly higher levels of depression, suicide and PTSD than other high stress professions because they have to execute people. Is it really right to ask people legally murder other people? Even if they are criminals?

Just some points to consider.

Winebottle

I don't know where you got the idea that my dad was impacted by this, he's fine (and to my knowledge never been in prison).