Death penalty

[birthdayboo]

I don't quite understand the logic of people who want to murder people who have committed awful crimes.

I do understand saying you wish you could, verbalising the anger felt and not literally meaning you would actually carry out a killing yourself.

I don't understand when people swear they would actually kill

One horrific crime doesn't go away because you commit another horrific crime such as murder on the guilty?

I don't understand the death penalty either - I totally agree that life seems too good for some people, however it's still legalising murdering a human being to have the state kill them - so I just can't get my head around murdering someone because they murdered someone. Perhaps some form of voluntary self administered euthanasia being available by prescription to individuals who will never leave prison in their lifetime would be a solution to how much money it costs to house prisoners however it's not even like people get death penalty and it happens soon, they spend ages and have money spent on holding them prior to execution

I know I said it before but I, for one would happily be the one to pull the trigger, press the button or inject that poison.
Anyone who kills, tortures, abuses, frightens, hurts, rapes another human being as proven themselves unfit to live in civilised society.

But if you kill... even by killing someone who has killed... by that logic don't you then need killing yourself?

Totally agree with you Aintnothingbutaheartache

Philosophically speaking, I have no problem with the death penalty as the appropriate outcome for committing deliberate murder. Our society has evolved over thousands of years to create a code of conduct, in which cold-blooded murder is the ultimate societal transgression.

We are lucky to live in a civilised society, under the rule of law that (admittedly imperfectly) keeps us all safer. Every member of society knows that to murder someone is the worst crime they could commit, it's not a secret. As such I believe that if you deliberately take the life of another (and of course I'm not talking about manslaughter, self defence, incapacity of any kind etc...) then you forfeit your right to live.

Here's where my problem lies with the death penalty - in it's application. The USA is a good example of the disparities between racial groups in awarding the death penalty. The imposition of the death penalty in the USA, even though every every single jury is made up of completely different people, shows a much stronger likelihood of a black defendant being given the death penalty than a white defendant across the entire country. Even black jurors are more disposed to voting for the death penalty for a black defendant over a white defendant. Considering these disturbing patterns, I don't support the actual imposition of the death penalty, but I stick to my philosophical position on it.

Aintnothingbutaheartache - so by your logic, if you did pull the trigger someone would have to then pull it on you?

It would be astonishingly difficult to prove without any minute tiny amount of doubt that someone is guilty enough to completely end them. The costs would be immense, if there is even a shadow of a doubt the family of the executed person could sue, imagine the issues if 5 or 10 years later someone decides to come clean after a change of heart and provides proof the executed wasn't guilty. And what it must do to the mental health of those doing the executing, from the jurors and others in court, the prison staff, those who carry out the execution. I couldn't imagine being on a jury knowing if I find this person guilty I am taking part in ending their life.

There is also motive and all sorts of other things, a spouse or child who has suffered years of torment or whatever finally fights back and becomes a murderer. Someone who goes out and purposefully grabs a person on the street and keeps them captive before murdering them, also a murderer. Or someone falls asleep in a car and ends up killing someone, and someone else who deliberately ploughs into someone in order to kill them. Its easy to say well, one is one thing, one is another, different motives different sentences, so very clear to tell them apart but clever arguments from clever lawyers and some part of the law twisted and potentially someone could end up dying for a crime others can argue their way out of. I'm terrible at wording things but essentially I don't have enough trust in every single aspect of the criminal system being so perfect we could use execution.

'Anyone who kills, tortures, abuses, frightens, hurts, rapes another human being as proven themselves unfit to live in civilised society.'

Which is why we dont have the death penalty and go around killing people, no matter what they've done

*The main arguments in favour of the death penalty are as follows:

1. Cost effectiveness. Cheaper to kill them than keep them in jail for decades*

They could still be on death row for decades. Appeals cost money.

2. Deterrence. Capital punishment is a better detterant than life in prison.
Is it? Im sure it's the certainty of being caught rather than the death penalty. Not sure it would make much difference for most murders. Also if there was tge desth penalty fir rape thrn better to kill the victim so they can't testify.

3. Justice. An eye for an eye. Like for like. Life in prison is not a just punishment for taking a life.

An eye for an eye and we all end up blind. Also if you kill the wrong person then you should also be killed as punishment.

I dont want the death penalty, but I do understand why some would.

They kill human beings and tax payers have to pay to keep them in an effective all inclusive hotel for the rest of their lives. Doesn't seem right, where is the punishment?

Ah, got me there burp point made
Still, I really can’t get away from the fact that if (god forbid) anyone hurt my kids (I don’t mean pissing them off or something) I would want retribution and I would not be afraid to carry it out

An all inclusive hotel? Really? Is this the Daily Mail comments section?

Being denied of your liberty is a pretty big punishment.

Look I’m not talking law or rights or conscience here, I’m talking about real bloody gut feeling.
Who here could say that they wouldn’t want to ‘wipe out’ the ‘person ‘ responsible for their child’s death or abuse?

I don't think prison for serious crimes is an all inclusive hotel. There may be some prisons that seem pretty nice but the higher security ones for the rest of your life - no, not nice at all. Even if the facility itself seems "nice" the fear and crimes that take place in prison aren't going to be like an "exclusive hotel"

I think lines get blurred by high security hospitals which have housed notorious people who committed the most awful crimes and that people don't understand that they have been found to be suffering from diagnosed mental illness. Those are much nicer than prison.

I found two films made a very good case for no death penalty: Dead Man Walking and Pierrepoint. Well worth a look if anyone is interested.

I don't think prison for serious crimes is an all inclusive hotel

Free food, free accommodation, gym, free health care, drugs... where is the punishment?

I don't believe in the death penalty because I believe that the right to life is inalienable. Life is, and should be, something which the state has absolutely no right to take away.

You don't spend the rest of your life in prison for murder.

You get out, some people get new identities. They get to LIVE Victims don't.

It’s also not the choice of someone who’s mind is muddled to the point of hideous destruction to take away

@Walkingdeadfangirl you hardly get to choose the accommodation, or the company, or the food, or the time you have recreation

Gyms may seem like a luxury on the outside, I mean David Lloyd is lovely but prison gym isn't David Lloyd with a personal trainer- and it helps lower crime in prison to have some physical activity available

Compared with other countries, our prisons are five star. But that's mainly because we uphold basic human rights whoever and wherever you are as opposed to building luxury hotels for criminals

walking, in the uk we already have an admittedly imperfect welfare state that will ensure that people don't starve to death on the streets. Our welfare state absolutely needs to be improved, but please let's not pretend that prison isn't worse.

parkhead - do you believe in "eye for an eye" in all crimes, or just murder?

I know it’s an emotive issue but really people, what would you do with a man that raped a baby? I’m sorry to be so inflammatory but come on here!
I wouldn’t pop him in prison, would you?
Put him out of our misery.

I'm not a great supporter of the death penalty but if it were law then I'd shed no tears for scum like Ian Watkins and Ian Huntley or others like them.

@RedBallpointPens
Only for the evil bastard who murdered my dd.

Huntley should have hanged. There’s a good reason for bringing back the death penalty

parkhead, I'm sorry for your suffering, and I hope the person who murdered her rots in hell. TBH, I'd probably feel the same as you in your position.