Death penalty

[birthdayboo]

I don't quite understand the logic of people who want to murder people who have committed awful crimes.

I do understand saying you wish you could, verbalising the anger felt and not literally meaning you would actually carry out a killing yourself.

I don't understand when people swear they would actually kill

One horrific crime doesn't go away because you commit another horrific crime such as murder on the guilty?

I don't understand the death penalty either - I totally agree that life seems too good for some people, however it's still legalising murdering a human being to have the state kill them - so I just can't get my head around murdering someone because they murdered someone. Perhaps some form of voluntary self administered euthanasia being available by prescription to individuals who will never leave prison in their lifetime would be a solution to how much money it costs to house prisoners however it's not even like people get death penalty and it happens soon, they spend ages and have money spent on holding them prior to execution

*Plus what kind of moral toll does it take on the person that has to do the executions? They have taken someones life. What if they turned out to be innocent? If you were the person who injected those drugs and killed an innocent 22 year old for example how would you feel about yourself then?

...and how would you feel if you were on the jury that sent that person to death?*

Quite. I think it's wrong that the jury are asked to decide the sentence in the USA. It should be the responsibility of the Judge.

I think ultimately, unless you're prepared to perform the executions yourself, advocating for the death penalty is the hight of hypocrisy.

If we start listing all the things wrong with the US criminal justice system we will be here for a very long time.

What brought the horrors of the death penalty home to me years ago was someone pointing out what it is like to spend your last day and night knowing that you are going to be killed at a defined time and will not see the next day and that, despite every fight or flight instinct screaming at you, there is nothing you can do about it. No matter what you have done, that is the stuff of dreadful nightmares, and it is particularly so if you are innocent.

In Japan death row prisoners are not told the date of their executions until the morning itself, about an hour in advance. Don’t know what’s worse, knowing the date and counting down or waking up every morning knowing it could be your last.

Possibly also Japan but I'm not sure, in one country the families don't get find out until afterwards when their relatives belongings are delivered to their house.

Japan also does forced confessions which is pretty scary. I think their prosecutors win something like 99% of cases for this reason.

Typical times spent on Death row , even in very pro-death penalty states like TX or Alabama, is like 10-15 years

I’ve been writing to a prisoner on DR in the US since 1991. He was sent there in 1985 at the age of 19. His conviction has now been quashed and he’s being released in 2020.

Just reading about Saudi Arabia and how they execute people for witchcraft amongst other things.

His conviction has now been quashed and he’s being released in 2020.

I hope he has support to help him adjust to a world vastly different from the one he left.

Why is he still serving over a year more?

The US justice system, what a corruption, how many people with money are on death row? I haves been writing to a DR prisoner, he was executed last year

This thread has really shocked me in terms off the ignorance and narrow mindedness of many posters on here. Watch the film ‘14 days in May’ featuring Clive Stafford Smith . The death penalty is barbaric.

Why is he still serving over a year more?

So much legal stuff still to go through. It can take three months for him to get in touch with his lawyer.

I hope he has support to help him adjust to a world vastly different from the one he left.

The internet wasn’t even invented when he went to death row. He’s never used a mobile phone or a computer. I’ve sent him a list of support organisations for released prisoners but there’s literally no support for someone in his position. It really worries me.

I was also writing to another prisoner in Texas. He was executed in 1998. My last letter to him came back unopened and stamped “deceased”. I had no idea he had exhausted his appeals.

I agree. Gotta.

I’m usually to the right of MN orthodoxy. But not on the death penalty, it would seem.

The US justice system, what a corruption, how many people with money are on death row?

Quite so. If OJ Simpson hadn't been the celebrity he was and had the money to pay his legal fees, he would have gone the same way. I think there was no doubt he was guilty of murdering his wife and her lover.

‘Barbaric’, now that’s an interesting word

If we start listing all the things wrong with the US criminal justice system we will be here for a very long time.

Indeed, here is just one example I heard about today - an innocent man spent 3 years in prison, lost his job and missed his childs first 3 birthdays because he did not have the money for bail. If he had been wealthy he would not have spent those 3 years in prison, but he wasn't so he did. (Case took 3 years to go to and complete trial, result was he was acquitted on all charges). twitter.com/MichaelBloch15/status/1037798223468015616

I agree it is barbaric.

Out of interest, what made you decide to write to a DR prisoner?

Do people really want to hand the state the right to commit murder? Really? Because that's what the death penalty is...state sanctioned murder.

Is murder wrong or isn't it? If you're in favour of the death penalty then you must believe that it's right if the circumstances are right. And who decides that? A jury? Given how often juries get things wrong, I wouldn't trust one with anyone's life, let alone my own.

In any event, the death penalty achieves nothing.

It doesn't prevent crime. Most crimes attracting the death penalty are not pre-planned so the deterrent aspect wouldn't have any effect, anyway.

We also know that the states with the death penalty have a higher crime rate than those without - probably due to the inherent, underlying violence of a government with the right to murder you.

So, as a deterrant, it's useless.

Revenge? Justice is not about revenge. If it was, rapists would be raped & burglars would be burgled. It's only the crime of murder where the whole "eye for an eye" thing gets trotted out, which really makes no sense.

Bottom line, you can't retain moral authority by telling people that murder is so wrong, we'll murder you if you do it.

And this doesn't even touch on the issue of possible innocence. Even with advances in DNA, it's impossible to know with 100% certainty that someone is guilty. Labs are run by human beings and human beings occasionally make mistakes. Killing an innocent is a crime so devastating and shocking that we should do everything we can to avoid it ever happening - first step, not kill them in the first place.

"If anyone hurt my DC, I'd want them dead" is not a good argument. We all would. The emotional pain from that kind of loss would be overrwhelming. But the law is there to be objective when we can't.

I think the only justification for killing a human being is to prevent them killing either yourself or others. There's no other justification, imo.

And another thing - in these days of social media and Internet news coverage I think it would be very very difficult in the case of a capital murder trial to ensure a fair trial in the sense of the jurors not being prejudiced by what they’ve already seen in the media.

Neah, people want the right the right to commit the murder with their own bare hands. Is the truth of the matter. Just pretending to be civilised if the state does it for them.

Who'd do the executing?

Doctors? Violating the oath to do no harm?

Anyone who wanted the job? Instant evidence they are psychos who need investigating as a potential threat to others?

People who don't want to do it but are threatened with losing their jobs if they refuse?

And who'd do the the training? What kind of monsters would we be bringing into the mainstream?