Channel 4 documentary "Married to a paedophile" *MNHQ amended title*

[MissHavershamssis]

Channel 4 tonight aired a documentary whereby the words and experiences of women married to paedophiles were documented albeit actresses played the parts of the wives to preserve anonymity.

I absolutely cannot comprehend any woman who could remain married to a man who finds the abuse of children arousing. One wife rightly so chucked her husband out upon his arrest - yet is happy for their two daughters to have contact? The other woman was imo disgusting - welcomed her husband (who had viewed the most extreme categorises of child abuse over several months) back with excitement and 'wore her best dress' to meet him on his release from prison.

I absolutely am not of the vigilante stance where 'we should chop their bits off' etc, and believe in rehabilitation via the SOTP, but as a mother and daughter I cannot get my head around any woman who could remain with a partner who found children sexually attractive.

On a different forum a few years ago there as a woman who defended her partner to the death as he was attracted to pre-pubescent boys but didn't act on that attraction. Most people were horrified.

So I suppose my AIBU is - to not understand how anyone could stay with a partner who has a paedophile as a partner.

Hindsight1 just read your post with tears. What a very strong woman you are.
I’m so very sorry you had all that to deal with. Just wanted you to know that I’m sure your sharing has helped a lot of people.
Thank you

@Hindsight1
I hope one day you can have a relationship again, there are many good men out there.
Not that it’s the be all. X

The site that asks for pictures of hotel rooms etc is traffickcam.com Sorry, don't know how to link to web site. Don't know if this is the one you were asking about, but it is relevant anyway.

to you all affected by child abuse

What a very courageous post Hindsight - I can feel the pain that must still haunt you even though this man (I won't dignify him by calling him your "husband" - he was just a pervert who hid behind your respectability) is dead and gone.

His evil deeds continue to live after him (sorry - didn't intend to sound Shakespearian), poisoning your life and the lives of his victims, and of their children, and of their relationships for years.

I can believe that you didn't know - how could you? Men will be careful to cover up filth like this even more than they would cover up an affair, and look how many unaware betrayed wives there are. And the way these filth minimise their behaviour - "indiscretion", "silliness", "I was stupid". I don't know whether they are truly unaware of the impact of their lust, or whether they don't give a damn as long as they can indulge it - whether they have a way of compartmentalising what they are doing.

You don't say whether you have children (not asking - don't want to pry), but if you have, your decision to leave must have been further complicated by "what - and how - do I tell them?". We saw on that programme the fierce defence of one of these men (Alex) by his DD. And I did wonder whether he had actually done something to her to, and that her championing of him was her way of refusing to admit, even to herself, that it had happened.

Of course this is all speculation and we will never know - but thank you for sharing your very bitter experience. And I wish you well with the rest of your life.

It was harder than I thought it would be to watch. I experienced emotional/borderline sexual abuse from my mother during my teenage years (until university), and emotional abuse for longer. It led to a long abusive marriage before I broke the cycle in my early forties.
My grandfather sexually abused my mother during her teenage years. He also verbally and emotionally abused my uncles, who both disappeared into the forces as soon as they could. He was a school caretaker, and my mum remembers the embarrassment of a school assembly where they were told to ‘not talk to (Binky’s grandad) or go to his shed’. He was caretaker at several schools, and was very popular, but there was always an element of scandal. Apparently my gran was encouraged by both my uncles to leave him, but her belief in her marriage vows stopped her. When they retired, mum and dad asked my grandparents to live with us. Mum actually asked my wonderful grandmother, but of course he came too. Mum thought she could protect my sister and me. (Dad didn’t know about it until we were grown up). She invited an abusive paedophile- her own abuser- into our home. He was a part of my abuse for such a long time- I got the double act of my mum and him. He sexually abused my sister and at least one of my cousins until they were too old for him. I never knew about that, I just resented that my sister got more presents than I did.
I can remember the feeling of utter betrayal when my gran died (he had died 8 years before), and the whole thing came out. The betrayal of my childhood by him (despite it all I loved him, particularly as a young child), the fact that my sister and cousin’s lives had been wrecked by him, and bigger in many ways, that my mum, who could have stopped the whole thing, let him in. Family bonds and loyalties are far more complex than we can discuss here, I know, but to have put them before us children, is beyond my comprehension. I would move my family to the moon if that was what it took, but no, instead he lived upstairs.

@Binky I cannot express how sorry I am for what you've been through, I can't even begin to find the words.

I'm watching this now on Catch-Up. Reminds me of my own situation, where my former husband is a convicted child sex offender.

It all happened soon after the divorce. I wasn't involved but I still worried about being picked on as my ex was well-known locally.

Haven't had any trouble though. We weren't in contact at the time so there was no question of giving him support but our children still see him. That baffles me.

Thank you, Aintnothingbutaheartache, lowtide and Schadenfreudpersonified for your very kind responses.
You raise some interesting issues and I firmly believe that we would all be better off if society in general were to take a more restrained approach and if people like me could discuss the issues openly without fear of retribution, vigilantism or basically sheer ignorance. You have been brilliant, but believe me many is the time I have read ignorant nonsense from people insisting "His wife must have known" or much, much worse. So let me address a few of the interesting points you raise.
Imagine you have a child, whom you love very much. At some point in their life, they commit a terrible crime; murder, perhaps. Do you stop loving them? Well, sometimes perhaps you do, especially if that crime robs you of another person you love, but in many cases you don't. Love isn't something you can consciously switch on and off, especially love for a parent. You mentioned that maybe paedophiles compartmentalise what they do - I think many do. Their offending goes into one, secret compartment, hidden from view by other compartments labelled "Respectable family man" and "Loving father" Likewise, I think that is also how families may, to an extent, cope. They cannot switch off the love they have for this parent, but they can compartmentalise it so that they "hate the sin but love the sinner".
I did not have children with this man, but was very close to my grown up stepchild, to whom I had to break the news. Please don't ask me to describe that process; it haunts me still. But I can remember very clearly one sentence:
"At least you can divorce him, he won't always be your husband, but he'll always be my father"
And this is what is so, so difficult.
Someone just took an etch-a-sketch and erased everything they thought they knew about the person who has been there for their entire life. Their entire life. I am stressing that because it's important; the love for a parent is pretty much encoded in our DNA and it withstands a lot of battering - for a child who was not themselves a direct victim of their parent's abuse, and who had a good and happy relationship with them before their arrest, they can't ''unlove'' them. It's not like de-friending them on Facebook. My stepchild was able to provide some support for him whilst holding him 100% accountable for his offending behaviour in the past and his future conduct and my pride in and admiration of them knows no boundaries.
There are many issues the documentary and the reaction to it has raised. I would dearly love to see more discussion. I would love there to be a point where people do not have to be portrayed by actors for fear of retribution and the need to protect those close to them. More than anything I would like people to understand that the wives or partners and families of these men (I keep saying men - it is of course sometimes women too) are victims too and they need support and help and sometimes counselling to get through it. What we certainly don't need is a cacophony of "It's the children in the images/the children they abused that I feel sorry for" when, trust me, you won't have wept the tears for them that I have, or my stepchild has, and above all we do not need ignorant hotheads deciding that we ''must have known''
Thank you for listening. It really means a lot

@binkytheslug
I'm so sorry for what you went through. I hope you are now in a happier place. I too found it more difficult to watch than I had anticipated, but I'm glad I did watch it

@Binkytheslug I'm so sorry your mother did this, it appears so complex when it's the man who also raised you.
My ex had a similar childhood situation, his mother was raped by her father throughout her childhood until she left home. She still loved him though, he was her father and apparently that meant more to her than the abuse. She (stupidly) allowed her children to stay with their GPs and of course, he abused both my ex and his sister. As far as I'm aware nothing was ever done legally and I believe he is dead now. My ex adores his mother but has suffered from trauma response MH issues his whole adult life, all because she failed as a parent to do the most basic thing of protecting her children from a known harm due an unjustifiable love and obligation for her father. I will never fathom it.

I forgot to add - I'm pretty sure his gran knew about the abuse too - of both her daughter and grandchildren. She still allowed him to bathe the children whenever they stayed at their house which is where most of the abuse happened. As far as I'm concerned, she's as guilty as he was for allowing that.

I have a fr8end whose friend is married to a Paedophile. He had images 9f child ex7al abuse on his computer. He says the police framed him. My friend has recently upped contact with his Wife. My stomach is churning. I am disappointed in my friend for also belueving her friends Husband was framed by the Police..
How can she not see he is guilty and his wife is also a sicko?
I'm so confused .. should I end my friendship with her for staying friends with them?

It is so complex, I know. I adored my grandad, especially when I was small. My most happy times were spent with my GP’s, the most special Christmases were spent there. He was known to be difficult and moody, but he had untreated PTSD- he’d been at Dunkirk, and then spent 4 years getting his teeth kicked in by the Japanese working on the Burma Railway. My gran said it brought the bad side out. She used to say that the happy, kind, loving father and husband died in Singapore. My uncles always agreed. I only saw the other side of him- the ‘difficult’ bit passed me by. It was only when they moved in when I was 8 that it all changed. I always see my life in 2 parts, and when I’m ill and the demons come I want to be 8 again. I never stopped loving him, but the nasty bit took over.

Hindsight1 your posts have been really interesting to read, thank you for posting.

One thing that sticks out for me is the part about you having wept for the children involved, which I don't for a second doubt. I think the 'think about the children' comments are more directed at people like Robert's wife in the programme; people who seem to brush over or avoid the facts involved. She almost justified her staying with him by basically saying he hadn't touched a child personally, so he wasn't as bad as someone who does. Which any rational person knows is rubbish because without those millions who view online images, there would potentially be fewer children abused.

I also found your comments re your stepchild eye opening. From my own experiences & from programmes such as this one, people go one way or the other; they either accept their family member is a paedophile & cut all ties, or they deny it/downplay it & stand firm behind them. Supporting them whilst making it very clear you know what they did & that they have to accept responsibility is something i have never seen. It's a very interesting tangent if that makes sense. Thank you for making me think a bit more about this

I haven't read the full thread yet, and didnt see the program. But i did have to send my children off to their father's despite me fighting it all the way. The court ruled he wasnt a threat to his own kids so they should go. Right. Just other kids then so thats ok????

As a mum, its a sickening position to be put in. It hadnt gone to trial. He was their dad. Innocent till proven guilty. Blah blah. Its all crap. and hurtful to everyone except the predator.

And the icing on the cake? The judge who made that decision was later sacked for watching porn.

Name changed.
My daughters were both abused by their brother for years. I knew nothing about it, he moved to live with his father when he was 18 and they were 8 and 13. His father had 3 children with his second wife. We don’t know for sure if he abused them too.
When my youngest daughter was 15 she told me what he’d done. He’d abused her since she was 3 years old right up until he moved out. He’d convinced her that it was normal sibling stuff and was their special game.
It was only as she got older and she witnessed something that led her to believe her younger siblings were at risk that she spoke to me.
We went to the police and he was arrested and charged.
It caused a huge fallout within the family. We are now NC with both grandmothers as he was always the golden child both GM refused to believe my DDs.
Both my DDs gave evidence in court and he was found guilty of 15 charges. (Suspended sentance and 300 hrs CS)
6 years down the line and my youngest DD is still seeing a psychologist for complex PTSD. She has a long way to go but I no longer have to hide the house keys to prevent her trying to escape in the night or hide the bleach so she doesn’t try to bathe in it because she thinks she’s dirty. I don’t have to hide her medication because she no longer wants to kill herself on a daily basis. She hasn’t self harmed for 12 months now.
Of course in true never rains style my older DD was diagnosed with leukaemia and had to come through chemo, blood transfusions, radiotherapy and stem cell transplant. Fingers crossed she’s been in remission for 12 months now but still needs checking regularly and the treatments have caused long term damage to her spleen.
We haven’t seen their abuser since the court case. The only person (apart from me) to stand by them is their step dad (who I separated from 12 years ago but has stayed an important part of their lives)
God that’s an essay.
My point is, I cannot ever overlook nor forgive what he did. I have no contact whatsoever with him and never will.
Before I go I will add that I blamed myself for not realising what he was doing and for not protecting my DDs from him. I still carry a lot of guilt but both my DDs have told me I have nothing to feel guilty about and that neither of them have ever blamed me. One day I might stop blaming myself.

I attended a separated parents course once and there was a woman there who had been ordered by Cafcass to hand her children for unsupervised contact over to their father who had been convicted of abusing them and had served 3 years for it.

The cherry on the cake was that shed been told she had to encourage her daughters to go or Cafcass said it was parental alienation and they could consider a change of residence.

You couldnt make that shit up.

@MotherOfSurvivors you picked the correct name I hope you stop blaming yourself one day,

It terrifies me that our so called justice system puts an adult's 'right' to being a parent over a child's right to safety.

Binky - your story i heartbreaking

I am stressing that because it's important; the love for a parent is pretty much encoded in our DNA and it withstands a lot of battering - for a child who was not themselves a direct victim of their parent's abuse, and who had a good and happy relationship with them before their arrest, they can't ''unlove'' them. It's not like de-friending them on Facebook.

Hindsight - your words are very true. I hadn't really thought about ti before, but learning something like this about a person you love, is a bereavement. The person you thought you had is dead to you (or never existed) - and yet you can't grieve because there they are in front of you every day. It must be a psychological nightmare not wonder it causes so much pain and grief and denial.

Survivors - yet again the innocent are blamed. I really can't understand why people stand by abusers to the detriment of their victims. Yes - you may still love that family member, but if you can only support one party - then it has to be the innocent. Please try to forgive yourself - you are a victim, too.

bequiet - You certainly could't make it up. And wouldn't want to.

It terrifies me that our so called justice system puts an adult's 'right' to being a parent over a child's right to safety.

And this is supposed to be in "the best interest of the child"/s

I feel for anybody in that situation.

Both my DDs gave evidence in court and he was found guilty of 15 charges. (Suspended sentance and 300 hrs CSangry)

• WTF!!!

6 years down the line and my youngest DD is still seeing a psychologist for complex PTSD. She has a long way to go but I no longer have to hide the house keys to prevent her trying to escape in the night or hide the bleach so she doesn’t try to bathe in it because she thinks she’s dirty. I don’t have to hide her medication because she no longer wants to kill herself on a daily basis. She hasn’t self harmed for 12 months now.
Of course in true never rains style my older DD was diagnosed with leukaemia and had to come through chemo, blood transfusions, radiotherapy and stem cell transplant. Fingers crossed she’s been in remission for 12 months now but still needs checking regularly and the treatments have caused long term damage to her spleen.

I have no words to express the sadness and anger I feel at reading about the harm caused to your DDs and he gets a fucking suspended sentence. Exactly how much harm does he need to cause to be recognised as the serial sex offender that he is and punished accordingly?

I know what it's like to be shunned for whistleblowing and then having to protect one's children on one's own as everyone else who I thought would be there for me and them walked the other way - it's heart-breaking.

You are a very brave woman and you did the right thing. He must have been an expert groomer to have hidden it for so long and also forced your DDs into silence. I hope you realise you did nothing wrong and it was not your fault but his. I am curious who modelled that behaviour to him?

Sending hugs from one mum to another.

Motherofsurvivors. That is an awful lot for someone to ever go through I send you all my love

What I find really horrid for myself, and this is purely about me- my sister and I have never talked about her feelings, maybe she will, maybe she won’t. I know Mum is riddled with guilt over it. She has never acknowledged her actions towards me, she’s 76 now, and I suspect the time for reckoning is past, however powerless and angry I feel. When she denies it I want to scream ‘YES IT BLOODY DID HAPPEN!! I WAS THERE!’ I suspect her internal policeman has rewritten it so effectively that she has an alternative reality, and she truly believes that I’m lying.
There are two things I hate though. First, they taught me how to be abused. They prepared me for years of abusive marriage. The desperate desire to please, the almost pathetic level of appeasement I showed. How I seized on every kind word and action, just hoping it would be real this time. Believing that if only I could come up to standard she wouldn’t need to be the way she was. She never hit me, she just lashed out in anger and frustration. She was never abusive, she was just being impatient. She belittled me in front of family and friends because she was honest, and didn’t believe in fake actions... shit! I’ve never shared this. I’ll be back once I’ve had coffee to let you know the other thing.