Channel 4 documentary "Married to a paedophile" *MNHQ amended title*

[MissHavershamssis]

Channel 4 tonight aired a documentary whereby the words and experiences of women married to paedophiles were documented albeit actresses played the parts of the wives to preserve anonymity.

I absolutely cannot comprehend any woman who could remain married to a man who finds the abuse of children arousing. One wife rightly so chucked her husband out upon his arrest - yet is happy for their two daughters to have contact? The other woman was imo disgusting - welcomed her husband (who had viewed the most extreme categorises of child abuse over several months) back with excitement and 'wore her best dress' to meet him on his release from prison.

I absolutely am not of the vigilante stance where 'we should chop their bits off' etc, and believe in rehabilitation via the SOTP, but as a mother and daughter I cannot get my head around any woman who could remain with a partner who found children sexually attractive.

On a different forum a few years ago there as a woman who defended her partner to the death as he was attracted to pre-pubescent boys but didn't act on that attraction. Most people were horrified.

So I suppose my AIBU is - to not understand how anyone could stay with a partner who has a paedophile as a partner.

I suspect her internal policeman has rewritten it so effectively that she has an alternative reality, and she truly believes that I’m lying

Tragically Binky this is probably right.

And the desperate need to feel that you are worthy of love (even though you "know" that inside you are foul - or rather you feel that you are foul - and will never be as good as other people.

You get a life sentence, your abuser gets a "get out of jail free" card.

It's total shit. The whole system is WRONG!

Thank you pissedoffdotcom
In the years that have passed since my own experience - although it still feels very raw - I have become convinced of one thing; we cannot afford for this subject to be the remaining taboo which is simply never spoken of, otherwise families like those pictured in the documentary will always have to be portrayed by actors for fear of the repercussions.
I was interested to see the end of the programme where one of the women featured, who had found a new partner, was looking to move and was trying to find a property with as few neighbours as possible. I understood that so well - she was now divorced and rid of her husband, had found happiness again, yet still her instinct was to isolate herself. I moved to another town where nobody knew me and cut myself off from many people in the process. It was horribly isolating at a time when I could probably have used a little support, but it was the only way I felt safe.
My feeling today is that we have to treat the issue the way politicians treated the need to find a solution to the conflict in Northern Ireland - sometimes you have to do what seems totally unpalatable and talk to terrorists to achieve peace. While society hides it's head away and it is considered 'okay' to demonise the innocent parties then we'll never get anywhere. I'm glad to have found such an intelligent response here - I briefly looked at twitter, but it just made me feel sick.

@schadenfreude

You are quite right , it is like a bereavement. You may still love the person as that's a tap you can't just turn off, but respect and pride and trust are gone forever. It is something I have discussed with those close to me - we have all at one time or another expressed the unthinkable; that we wish he had just died without us knowing about his offending, then at least we would have happy memories. Coping with the aftermath is like a living bereavement - the person you knew and loved has gone, but there is this pathetic stranger still hanging around, wearing their body, sounding like them, smelling like them. It's enough to do your head in at times.
Thank you all for listening. Strangely, I feel stronger for talking about it.

I agree wholeheartedly that SA & the absolute carnage it causes must must must become something we can discuss, simply to protect victims & potentially protect other people. I will admit tho I have an issue with this idea of protecting abusers...even though by default we would be protecting their families & those caught up in their crimes. I guess there is no one way that will satisfy everybody; somebody connected will always end up getting hurt however society tries to manage the handling of SA.

I agree we have to talk about it much more. It is hugely prevellant. We ignore something that is such a huge part of our society.
I like the Northern Ireland analogy. No one wants to engage with terrorists, but putting our heads in the sand and pretending it’s not happening is not the way to deal with it.

Why is it so prevalent, what is it about human nature. If you can detach yourself, then it’s a crucial question we need to ask ourself, otherwise we will never really get to grips with it.

Sexual asssualt in general is so prolific, rape is the most common feature of war.
I digress. But if we don’t talk about these things in the open, and if we start blaming many of the family of the perpetrators we push everyone underground.

I've not read the whole thread, I posted right at the beginning.

It does need to be talked about more. Most people (parents) fear it, but few want to talk about it, unless it's affected them directly.

I remember, when my (very good) friend's husband was caught, there was this veil of silence over the whole thing. Nobody wanted to believe it. That this "good" man, that they had known, or chatted to, or played golf with, or whatever, had actually done something so heinous. He absolutely did, he admitted it all to the police. (They tend to, when they're dawn-raided by police officers.)

A number of people also seemed willing to excuse or ignore it. It was the strangest thing. Like they couldn't believe this "thing" that they normally only read about in the paper, had actually come into their own lives - ie. somebody they knew.

It really was the strangest experience. Like everyone is in denial about it. They don't want to think about it.

"It really was the strangest experience. Like everyone is in denial about it. They don't want to think about it."

I think this is part of the human condition. In general, we don't like to feel uncomfortable, and will do our best to remove that feeling however we can. If we're cold, we warm ourselves, if we're hungry, we eat something. If we feel guilty, we either try to make amends OR we re-write history so that it's not our fault and we have no need to feel guilty.

If we come up against something that makes us so uncomfortable because it challenges our previous beliefs,and we are unable to deal with that, then we either have to walk away from the situation entirely, OR we just don't believe it and carry on with our previous beliefs.

There are some people who are able to face this stuff head-on - some of them on this thread - and deal with it in an appropriate manner, but most people will just take the easier route which is to deny, re-write and carry on believing what they always did. That way, their comfort levels are re-established - because it doesn't directly affect them, as they are not the victims.
And some will just remove the "situation" (person, family, knowledge) from their own lives so that they don't have to think about it because they don't want to feel uncomfortable again.

Thus the victims of the abuser are either disbelieved, or ignored and cut out of others' lives, because the victims themselves make the other people feel uncomfortable for challenging their own views/beliefs.

Shocking, but "normal". Too many people take the easy route.

Watched the one about child sex offenders in America the other week. Stacey wotzit was asking victims, police and offenders about stuff and whether they should get a second chance. Their rules are really strict. They are not allowed within 2.5 miles of a school or meeting place which makes accommodation hard to find when they are let out. One bloke was massively convincing and you kinda warmed a little to his effort in being clean until he told her at the end what he had done and It was vile. He simply did not understand that it was wrong and could not understand why others made such a big deal out of it. You cannot cure these people. No matter how good a husband or dad he was, I could not live under the same roof as a person who thought sexual activity/thoughts with a child was ok.

When I say clean, I mean his efforts to change his way of living, his thoughts, to be remorseful, to start anew.

HTTFT but some women are blind.
I was abused by my brother and his friends. They stopped and I didn't tell anyone.
A few years later we started going abroad as a family and I had to share a bed with my brother (i was 11 when this started). I told my mum what had happened when I was 14. She continued making me share a bed with him every year.

Hindsight

That's a good thing about this forum - when someone has a real problem they can share it in as much or as little detail as they feel able, and people will listen. We may be a nest of vipers, but often we are surprisingly caring ones.

I'm glad you have found at least a little more peace.

I actually thought it was quite a nuanced programme. I felt quite sorry for the paedos - obviously not as sorry as I felt for everyone else (especially the online children). I hadn't thought of paedos as people before. I thought the men portrayed were suitably punished and felt for the daughters of the caravan paedo - what do you do when your adored dad is 95% wonderful and 5% diabolical.

I can honestly say in my eyes neither of the men portrayed in the programme had been punished enough for what they did. I felt sorry for Alex's ex wife as her life was turned upside down & she was then being berated by her daughter for 'not understanding'. I felt sorry for Robert's DiL because she was almost being backed into a corner in an attempt to reintroduce him into the children's lives - i am pleased she stuck to her guns on that one. That said i was shocked, all things considered, that the grandchildren were still permitted in that house knowing he visited & his wife still had intimate contact with him. I would hate knowing details of my children were still being passed to him to keep him in the loop

Abusers will groom women who they then go on to have children with.

Cognitive dissonance is a fascinating and sobering thing.

The men in the programme were no where near punished enough. Alex should've got custodial and the fact he had any type of access to the internet still made me ill and shows he doesn't take his problem seriously. Robert should never have had any path to his GC even through his wife, I'm glad their DiL didn''t allow it, as Pissed said, I would not want my children's details being passed to someone like him either.
You can't protect children until people of this persuasion are kept locked up for life, because chances are they will re-offend even it's 'just' viewing although death penalty as I would prefer

Neither of them accepted any responsibility for their vile actions, Neither apologised, neither was punished enough.

Hindsight - so sorry to hear about your experience and thank you for sharing it. It helped me to read this and I also found the programme had many parallels with my own experience. In my case I wasn't the wife, I was the daughter, so perhaps easier in some ways.

When he was arrested it was like a bomb going off in the centre of our family. I agree that it felt like a bereavement, but bereavement would be easier in some ways as all of my memories would not be tainted. It is hard even to look at my wedding album or any old family photos as he is in them.

I empathise a bit with how Alex's daughters behaved as I initially tried to support my father. He told us it started accidentally and was more of a morbid curiosity than anything else, and was his way of coping with his own problems. I was desperately trying to hold the family together and couldn't suddenly stop loving him. I was in shock.

After the sentencing it was clear that this behaviour had gone on for a number of years, including images and videos of the most serious kind, and of babies and very young children. He couldn't be honest about it and continued to minimise things.

He was arrested 3 months before my first child was born. When the full extent of things became known I made the decision to have no further contact with my father. This was the right decision for myself and my husband and children. I think it made things harder for my mum though.

Mum had a history of depression and tried to kill herself a few weeks before my first child was born. She spent most of the next 6 months in a psychiatric hospital. She is a shell of her former self and hasn't really bonded properly with my children. I feel like I have lost both parents.

I don't know whether she stays with my father out of a sense of misguided loyalty, or if she is too depressed to consider any other option. He has taken on the carer role and she is now very dependent on him. He used this as a mitigating factor in his defence and got a non custodial sentence.

My siblings still see him but don't have children so perhaps it is easier for them. I think they only do it for mothers benefit. My parents live a few minutes away and I find it hard to drive past him or walk past their house on the school run. They moved to this area when I was pregnant with my first and unfortunately they plan to stay.

I agree that it is a lonely place for families to be. I haven't really dealt with what happened but don't really want to have counselling as I feel like a counsellor wouldnt understand if they had not been in that situation. So it is helpful to read others' stories. I told close friends and work colleagues at the time, as I needed support. I also felt like I had to share it so that I wasn't seen as being guilty by association if it got out in the news. I would be wary of the wider community finding out though in case it affected my children at school etc.

I am still trying to process everything that has happened, including dealing with the situation with my mother. It is also hard as his only daughter wondering when these thoughts started and how long he has had the predilection for young children. I'm a way though I am fortunate that what happened happened, as my children were never left in his care.

@summergems
Thank you so much for such a compassionate contribution to the thread. Last year my hero of a dad was arrested for this.

I have never spoken to anyone outside the family about this for fear of what people will think of him. Occasionally I have taken part in conversations were someone brings up a story of a 'sick paedophile' and I just want to leg it out of the conversation. It's painful. And a terrifying reminder of how my dad will be portrayed by family and friends once the story breaks.
He has always been an amazing and supportive dad to me. I have had such a difficult time coming to terms with what has happened as well as still loving my dad. I struggle massively with what he has done but he is still my dad. People on this group have been very outspoken about their disgust with families who stick together in cases like this, up until recently I would have said the same. But no one can understand just how torturous it is to break off the love for someone unless you're facing this scenario yourself.

I have been in a dark place since this with no one to turn to.

@Onlythelonely1 and @Avocado123
Very brave and honest posts from you both.
I don’t think there is enough support for people like you, and your families.
It’s a huge burden.

I think a very hard thing is when a father has been a genuinely good father to their children. Never expressed their urges on their own family. So it really is a total shock to the system. And you can’t just Unlove someone. Especially someone you’ve loved unconditionally.

@onlythelonely1 and @Avocado123

My heart truly goes out to you both.
Trying to unravel these situations and to separate the love for your father from the crimes he committed is like trying to unravel a single coloured thread from a jumper while leaving the rest of the pattern intact.
For me, one of the big issues has been having nowhere and no-one to turn to and I think that would certainly help, even if it's just someone to talk to who understands and has been there. As far as I know, no such organisation exists at the moment, so maybe this is a place to start.
Stay strong. Love for a parent isn't something you get a say in, nor is it something for which you should apologise or feel guilty.

xx

Avocado123 Thu 06-Sep-18 22:51:33
I have been in a dark place since this with no one to turn to.

How do you think victims feel?

To me, its not a hard decision to make, your parent or not. If someone does this they should be cut off instantly.

I watched this on catch up and, having worked with men who commit this crime, the fathers "explanation" was spot on and what I have heard from every single one of these men. They are not "paedophiles" as such and the title was misleading. True paedophiles are incapable of finding adult women sexually attractive. These men both had families. It is also true that men who commit internet offences are actually no more likely to commit a contact offence than anyone else. Though I can fully understand why the daughter in law of the older man was worried about fantasies he may have had.

These men start out with a porn addiction. Every man I've worked with has said this to me. It starts out with adult porn, they become desensitised to it, they start exploring more violent porn, things including animals. They do not set out to look for children. The same way for example, that a person who smokes cannabis doesn't intend to become addicted to heroin. But, in the same way some people can smoke cannabis and never have a problem, for others it's a "gateway" and they end up on harder drugs. It's the same with porn, it is an addiction, for some. And for some it's a gateway and a slippery slope. It very much over simplifies it to say they could just stop. Would anyone tell a heroin addict "you can just stop". The addiction affects chemicals in the brain. It's complex. Why do some people gamble to the extent that they lose their homes and families? Why don't they just stop?

I haven't RTFT but I have seen some sympathy here for the families of these men. But it is society's reaction to these men and their families that means that the family members become victims too. For the PP's who have been brave enough to post that they have been through this, please look at this link. They do a lot of good work, in fact I think a link should have been given at the end of the programme.

www.lucyfaithfull.org.uk/inform.htm

I'm not saying anyone should feel sympathy for these men. Nor am I saying people shouldn't be disgusted by their actions. But, look at the man in the caravan. His daughters support is one of the main reasons he doesn't want to offend again. He has nothing else. A caravan and a minimum wage night job. Not much to lose. I think the statistics said they think 100,000 men have viewed child images? That's a lot. We need to address that in a sensible way. You can't lynch them all.

Eliza9917 - Avocado is a victim, the type and mechanism of victimisation are different but they are still devastating. I cannot imagine what it is like to find out that the man you have looked up to all your life isn't worth your regard, it must be shattering! Questioning whether your own father's hideous actions towards other children invalidates the many fantastic things he did in your life...anyone finding themselves in that situation has my deepest sympathy.

Nothing lessens or invalidates the damaged done to those who have been sexually abused, but that doesn't prevent other having a difficult time as well.

@Eliza9917
And that is precisely the kind of attitude we face.

Eliza, with respect, those of us who find ourselves in this situation can never escape what the victims suffer; I had nightmares for years. It does not mean that we are not also victims, made even more so by the ignorance and judgementalism we have to deal with. Please don't.

@Hindsight1 Don't come off like you've had it worse than SA victims then. Because you haven't.