AIBU to be shocked that the NSPCC cancelled their Facebook Live session with Mumsnetters, because they didn't like the questions? That they can't explain why they aren't putting children in danger?

[loveyouradvice]

I am reeling from this - Mumsnet promoted a Facebook Live for Thursday 12.30... to talk about keeping Kids safe from Abuse, and to publicise their PANTS and SpeakOut StaySafe campaigns.

NSPCC just didn't turn up - and only 4 hours later published a brief statement that said nothing!!!! So lots of people waiting for a no show.

It is fine for them to have the policies they have - IF THEY CAN EXPLAIN that they really are in all children's best interests and that they aren't putting girls at risk..... They haven't even tried to do that... Just ignored us and run. Ignored MUMSNET - which is full of people who raise or give money to the NSPCC, and who use it.

HOW??? I am bewildered beyond words.....

Oh ... and hopefully clicky link here of the questions Mumsnetters asked - really thoughtful cogent ones!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_facebook_live/a3343961-Facebook-Live-about-talking-to-kids-about-staying-safe-from-abuse-with-NSPCC

2 boys raped in a toilet in McDonald’s were not protected by being in a single sex space

I was horrified at that story, my boys were a similar age and trying to be independent and i used to let them go in together but i didnt like it

The small one was furious with me that i wouldnt let him go by himself (then pretty much the first time he managed to get himself lost and i virtually took the gents apart)

Then there were a number of cases of young teenage boys being dragged into toilets at the time as well...and the littleone on an American campsite. Just horrific

Common factor was the attackers were all men

I dont know what the answer is when protecting boys...but im fairly positive its not letting MEN...not transwomen...MEN into the ladies

spirited

I thought in the main your posts were very interesting and informative

I dont agree with every single part obviously and some of the GC posters here ARE safeguarding experts

But there are also some very passionate posters who have been posting the same stuff for months and months now...and just get dismissed (on both ends of the debate)

from Guardian article (May 2018) about schools' response to young people questioning their gender identity:

[Stephanie] Davies-Arai [founder Transgender trend] says her broader concern is that by affirming students’ gender identity, schools may be nudging them down a route that can lead to cross-sex hormones and life-changing surgery without enough time to reflect. Teachers, she says, “are essentially being forced to collude in an experimental approach towards children with gender dysphoria”. She adds: “You can support children and accept them, without affirming their belief that their body is ‘wrong’.”

Adele Robinson (not her real name), a head of year at a secondary school, shares Davies-Arai’s worries. The school has had 12 children, all girls, come out as transgender in the past 18 months. The majority, she says, have autism, and some have experienced sexual abuse.

When they come out, she says, they have brought in information sourced from Tumblr blogs and YouTube videos. Although her team does its best to “support every child in a loving, kind and compassionate way”, she feels that staff are too frightened to challenge what she sees as harmful practices: “We have chest binders worn in school, which is horrible. If a child was cutting, they would be straight in with a counsellor. Yet damaging developing breast tissue goes unquestioned. It’s a gross failure in terms of child protection.”

[Susie] Green [Mermaids CEO] disagrees, and argues for a biological underpinning to transgender identity: “If a child or young person consistently, insistently and persistently states their feelings, to ignore, punish or repress their gender identity would effectively be reparative therapy.” (continues)

www.theguardian.com/education/2018/may/15/transgender-row-teachers-afraid-challenge-breast-binding

A wonderfully diverse executive board consisting of half men and half women, could, in fact, be all men.

At the recent Fawcett Society 'Courage Calls, Tell her to Stand' conference, aimed at encouraging more women to take part in politics, a cross-party panel of MPs were asked how they would respond to the hypothetical possiblity under gender self-id if the hoped for 50/50 (men-women) balance of MPs were 50% Male & 50% male-born trans women.
All party representatives said this was fine because 'transwomen are women' and Sal Brinton (Lib Dem) went further to say she would be delighted.

thread with link to the debate:
[www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3310443-Fawcett-Society-Live-stream-from-5-30pm-Courage-Calls-Ask-her-to-stand

R0wantrees

It's scandalous, shameful, and spectacularly not on the public's radar.

All party representatives said this was fine because 'transwomen are women' and Sal Brinton (Lib Dem) went further to say she would be delighted.

And people wonder why women think this is the single, largest issue in a generation.

Not only are women's rights being rolled back at a breathtaking pace, they are being threatened for objecting.

And people are calling them rude and sneering. I can only conclude that it's lack of knowledge, rather than a genuine reaction.

Hi Rat, surely the NSPCC should have been able to put everyone's minds at rest about the miniscule risk of problems related to trans^, so they could get on with the other questions.
Why do you suppose they didn't do that?^

THIS. Wake up and smell the coffee, woker than woke virtue signallers.

The NSPCC's "valuable campaign" is actively harmful when it is teaching girls that they are not allowed to assert their own boundaries, and teaching them that they are not allowed to say they want privacy, dignity and safety from boys and men.

THIS. WITH BELLS ON AND EXTRA FLYING MONKEYS.

It’s a bit like trying to talk to anti vaxxers.

I quite agree. Got a mirror in your house, have you?

It's worrying that top cops should be so completely hard of thinking.

And people are calling them rude and sneering. I can only conclude that it's lack of knowledge, rather than a genuine reaction.

Datun I wonder how many people know the legal definition of both 'women' and 'female' ? As of the bill you mentioned, passed in March they now mean something very very different to what the majority of the population would reasonably expect.
There are massive implications to this that are not being discussed by those involved in passing the legislation.

details of the bill;
fairplayforwomen.com/scottish_stole_woman/

NB the line should read, " I wonder how many people know the legal definition of both 'women' and 'female' in Scotland ?

Well said, Datun.

The NSPCC were due to talk about a different issue,

no they fucking weren't

Telling lies to children - that obvious men, naked men, are actually women is wrong. And if the speak out they disrespectful/bigoted.

This is the heart of the matter, whatever statistics you dig up. It's abusive gaslighting.

Thank you for your patience Datun you can do what I can't!

Just catching up

"I've just seen that prominent Green Party transactivist David/Baloo/Lucy Challenor submitted an FOI request in 2013 to find out which specific local schools had hard to reach (ie vulnerable) children placed in them"

Oh my fucking god

There is no way that poor girl was his first victim. You dont go from nothing to crimes as extreme as his. It's well known that they start small and escalate their offending, hone their coercion techniques etc.

This is really fucking worrying and why have we not had any statements from the gymnastics club, the scouts, teh wheelchair basketball club, the charities he was involved in and so on? The police to say they have checked extensively and no more victims but if anyone affected then to come forward.
It's really worrying.

Sorry this may be off topic a bit but maybe not.

And I know a lot of people are really worried about this.

There is no way that poor girl was his first victim. You dont go from nothing to crimes as extreme as his. It's well known that they start small and escalate their offending, hone their coercion techniques etc.

YY. It's extremely unlikely that he started at the age of 42.

Telegraph article today: 'NSPCC in Mumsnet row after defending Girl Guides transgender policy'

concludes:
"Justine Roberts, Mumsnet founder and CEO, told the Daily Telegraph that the site "will always have a great deal of sympathy for vulnerable and oppressed groups but we are also committed to freedom of speech.

"Sometimes these two principles come into conflict, rarely more so than in the recent debate about what it is acceptable to say, or not to say, about trans people, and changing opinions about gender and sex."

She added that the debate over transgender people's rights had tested "to the absolute limit" the site's ability to host "civilised discussion".

"But we fundamentally believe that with a bit of an effort all round then we can allow all voices to be heard and that by allowing all sides to be heard we can move towards a constructive compromise," she said."
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/09/03/nspcc-mumsnet-row-defending-girl-guides-transgender-policy/

"So a woman from birth who is in transition and presents with no obvious breasts and a beard would presumably cause outrage by using a ladies toilet "

lol

This is teh UK

In my part it would cause women to exchange looks and keep an eye on them, one brave woman might say "erm this is the ladies???"

and that would be abut it

Outrage

" I'm not persuaded that single sex spaces necessarily protect anyone particularly."

??

This is from a safeguarding expert?
So, cancel single sex wards, single sex prisons, single sex showers, bathrooms, communal changing areas, and everything, and this will result in no issues for anyone?

Come off it.

There was only just the other day a report into how voyeurism offences go through the roof and contact sexual offences increase in mixed sex changing at leisure facilities.

WHY do so many people have such determination to deny that
a. a massive minority of men are creepy perves and
b. most of them are het and their interests lie in women and
c. loads and loads of men have a sexual interest particularly in girls from puberty to about 18 and will move heaven and earth to see eg a 13yo girsl taking all their clothes off

I would say wow how sheltered BUT this is coming from someone who is expert in these matters?!

spirited do you realise that ‘in transition’ can mean as little as changing your name and pronouns? No hormones, surgery or even change of clothing required. And that 80-90% of those who are trans according to Stonewall definition will never have any genital surgery?
We are not talking about transsexuals who have made a lifelong commitment and had genital surgery eg penis and testicles removed. We are talking about people like Aimee Challenor who literally wore a dress to their prom and had therefore ‘transitioned’ Given AC’s childhood experiences do you think there may be other factors linked to their transition?

Don’t you think generally the numbers of girls trying to transition is alarming? And that given how many of these girls have a history of sexual abuse perhaps affirmation and life changing hormones is NOT the best way to help them

And people are calling them rude and sneering. I can only conclude that it's lack of knowledge, rather than a genuine reaction.

Women who have been trying to discuss the threats to safeguarding frameworks and women's rights have been smeared and accused of appalling and blatently untrue things.

For example, this week Caroline Lucas announced she would be meeting with WPUK to discuss things, see their subsequent statement following reactions to this:
(extract)
"We are astonished by the reaction to Caroline Lucas tweeting that she is arranging a meeting with Woman’s Place UK to hear the concerns of women in relation to proposals to change the Gender Recognition Act (GRA).

In these reactions, we have, once again, been misrepresented as a ‘far-right’ ‘Transphobic’ ‘hate-group’ with which no self-respecting politician should engage. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

Flyer 1On the contrary, we are a grassroots campaign made up of women in the labour movement and women’s services with five reasonable demands to ensure that women’s voices are heard on issues of material concern to them, and that our rights are defended and upheld."
womansplaceuk.org/wpuk-meeting-with-green-party/

With regards Mumsnet: Article by India Willoughby April 2018 smearing Justine Roberts, Mumsnet and describing women on the site as Nazis etc

(extract)
"Mumsnet CEO Justine Roberts squeals that trans people highlighting the content – including threads which out trans people – to some of the site’s main advertisers is out of order. She describes it as an attack on free speech. This might be a shock to Justine, but trans people have free speech, too.
There’s even a debate about introducing a new trans Section 28, clamping down on educating the public about what transgender is.

Justine is adamant there’s nothing transphobic on Mumsnet. Only reasoned debate. She wants transgender visitors to Mumsnet to be “happy and supported.” It feels reminiscent of when Cruella de Vil opens a home for stray dogs in 101 Dalmatians.

As I say, take a look for yourself. Trans groups are more than happy to debate any subject Justine or her murky corner of the web wants – but the material on the site isn’t a discussion. It’s vicious, nasty persecution

Mumsnet’s reputation for transphobia is fully deserved. Hardliners openly strategise ways to make life tougher for trans people: Passengers warned not to travel on sleeper trains because they might end up in the same sleeping berth as a woman who’s trans. Support gathered to stop trans women being allowed on Labour’s all-women shortlists. National meeting organised where they can clap and cheer their hatred.

It’s all very similar to the way the National Front used to operate." (continues)

www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/04/24/india-willoughby-transphobia-opinion-worried-for-my-life-mumsnet/

Datun, as ever, excellent posts.

Here it is in black and white.... In the cinema yesterday (big multiplex one), went to the ladies loo. Long row of cubicles, empty, only me there. Two little girls came in, I smiled at them and they smiled back. Now, for the hard of understanding.....................
I could have been a transwoman. I smile, little girls smile, all hunky-dory. OR.........I could have been a transwoman with previous convictions of sexual assault on little girls. I smile at the little girls, they smile back............................make your own ending!
.... GOT IT YET???

I would say wow how sheltered BUT this is coming from someone who is expert in these matters?!

Supposedly. Really quite concerning.

or tillytop you could have been a male claiming to be a trans woman with previous convictions for sexual assaults on girls or women.

current case in California following alleged sexual harrassment of women in a women's homeless project required by federal law to admit self-identifying 'women'.
May 2018 article:
'Shelter forced women to shower with person who identified as a transgender woman and sexually harassed them, lawsuit says'
(extract)
FRESNO, Calif. (KFSN) -- A prominent Fresno charity, homeless women, and the transgender community all say they're experiencing a nightmare come true.

Nine women homeless women signed on to a lawsuit against Naomi's House and its parent company, the Poverello House, saying the last place they could go to feel safe is now dangerous because they're forced to shower with a transgender woman.

The Naomi House bills itself as a gentle haven of healing and a safe haven for single, homeless women, but a new lawsuit says it put a lot of women in harm's way in a very vulnerable spot -- the shower.

It says the shelter requires them to shower in groups, and it opened its doors to a person who identified themself as a transgender woman who made lewd and sexually inappropriate comments, and leered at them while they were naked.

"This is the biggest fear they bring up, that you're going to have people who may not even be transgender in bathrooms and settings where people are naked and their privacy rights are being violated," said Peter Kapetan, who filed the lawsuit on behalf of the women.

Poverello House administrators tell Action News federal law says they have to treat a person identifying as a woman as a woman -- and there's no way to test whether it's true." (continues)

thread with link to article:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3266198-No-True-Transwoman-transadvocates-question-whether-TW-is-genuine-after-said-TW-sexually-harasses-women-in-homeless-shelter