AIBU to be shocked that the NSPCC cancelled their Facebook Live session with Mumsnetters, because they didn't like the questions? That they can't explain why they aren't putting children in danger?

[loveyouradvice]

I am reeling from this - Mumsnet promoted a Facebook Live for Thursday 12.30... to talk about keeping Kids safe from Abuse, and to publicise their PANTS and SpeakOut StaySafe campaigns.

NSPCC just didn't turn up - and only 4 hours later published a brief statement that said nothing!!!! So lots of people waiting for a no show.

It is fine for them to have the policies they have - IF THEY CAN EXPLAIN that they really are in all children's best interests and that they aren't putting girls at risk..... They haven't even tried to do that... Just ignored us and run. Ignored MUMSNET - which is full of people who raise or give money to the NSPCC, and who use it.

HOW??? I am bewildered beyond words.....

Oh ... and hopefully clicky link here of the questions Mumsnetters asked - really thoughtful cogent ones!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_facebook_live/a3343961-Facebook-Live-about-talking-to-kids-about-staying-safe-from-abuse-with-NSPCC

But what rights don't they have.

So why don't we pick on them instead of derailing trans rights?

Because predatory men will prey on vulnerable children and especially trans children who are urged to join a 'family' apart from their own family who will not understand them.

Aimee Challenor's parents supported Aimee when she 'came out' as trans on proms night when 16 years old. But as we know, Aimee lived in a very toxic household where Aimee's father, the paedophile and rapist, David Challenor, was sentenced indeterminately for 22 years for the torture and rape of a 10 year old girl. Aimee Challenor was a very vulnerable trans teen.

The NSPCC have been asked about this issue time after time. This was not the first time they were made aware of it.

They relentlessly refuse to acknowledge that there is an issue.

Frankly, all they would need to do is confirm that equality impact assessments must be made, where two protected characteristics appear to be in conflict.

That's the law. Under the equality act.

Why won't they say so ?

I honestly don't get why they won't even cite the current law.

I had Sky News with Sajid Javid's speech on earlier. I had it on mute so was really only noticing the captions, the main one of which read something like

"sexual offenders will go to extreme lengths to abuse children"

I somehow don't think an effectively over-the-counter declaration of womanhood for a child abuser (or rapist) is anywhere near "extreme lengths" so let's stop pretending it's not a fucking open door for them.

I'd love one of the people o here with all the concerns about trans rights to give us an example of a policy that allows for the rights of trans kids, whilst also not jeopardising girls rights.

One would be good.

May 2018 Guardian Article, 'Schools pulled into row over helping transgender children
As more teens come out as trans, experts clash over how schools should help'
(extract)
"While the Allsorts advice states that “trans pupils or students should have access to the changing room that corresponds to their gender identity” and that in PE lessons, students “should be enabled to participate in the activity which corresponds to their gender identity if this is what they request”, Davies-Arai [founder of Transgender Trend] argues that shared changing rooms present difficulties for some girls. Few teenage girls will be willing to admit that they feel uncomfortable sharing a changing room with a biologically male student, she says.

She points out that the technical guidance on the Equality Act for schools suggests offering students “private changing facilities, such as the staff changing room or another suitable space” – the approach taken at Miles’s school.

Susie Green, CEO of the charity Mermaids, disagrees, saying the debate about single-sex toilets seems “engineered to whip up fear” and is equivalent to “arguing people of colour shouldn’t be allowed to use the same toilets as white people in case they make them dirty”.

www.theguardian.com/education/2018/may/15/transgender-row-teachers-afraid-challenge-breast-binding

It seems to me that Allsorts and Mermaids constantly go on about toilets and changing rooms,, in fact they seem obsessed about it, and yet it's GC people who are damned when bringing up the obvious safeguarding problems with this stance.

What is going on here?

arguing people of colour shouldn’t be allowed to use the same toilets as white people in case they make them dirty”.

How many times does this argument get trotted out? The people using it must be pretty desperate.

Black people don't make white people dirty. Men do attack women.

It's like reinventing the wheel. Every day.

I don’t hate trans people, I probably have more trans in my social circle than you do

Hugely doubt that's true. But this isn't a pissing contest.

They don’t support demedicalisation/self ID either (they’d just like it to be cheaper, faster and a bit more dignified - similar complaints to other kinds of paperwork the government requires, the process for indefinite leave to remain, for example)

Every trans person I know is the opposite. Funny that.

And I don't care if i disgust you frankly.

How are trans people so opressed and vulnerable. No trans woman has been killed or beaten in men's loos.

Trans women are privileged by default of having a penis. They get everything thd6 want because of said penis and because everyone bends over backwards to show how woke they are.

Middle class white men and biys are the most privileged of all. Girls are aborted for being girls. 2 women are killed a week.37 percent are in sexually harassed in schools. There is a rape a day.in schools.

Please tell me how not using a girls changing too. Turns them in to the most opressed humans on the planet.

Preferably withiut using what is basically the equivalent of "if I can't change with the girls I'll kill myself " tactics of abusers I may add.

"Facts are not hatred."
Yet you've quoted very few of them to show why there should be so much stoking of fear of trans people.

You know so much that it fills a thread or more a week on MN?

So much that when a charity came here to talk about a specific program aimed at dealing with more than 99% of abuse, it derailed it and has been used to attack that charity? One which has supported vulnerable children for generations.

Self ID has many issues, but the idea that anything other than a tiny fraction of people might consider using it to attempt to abuse others is ridiculous. Most of the people who are trans are vulnerable individuals themselves, far more have been beaten up in men's bathrooms when forced to use them, than the infinitesimally small number of people who have used it as a cover for predatory attacks.

How very disappointing. It seems a shame to stop supporting them financially but I can't support an organisation that won't even have a conversation about an important safeguarding issue when that's their remit!

I honestly don't get why they won't even cite the current law.

I suspect it's because the NSPCC doesn't want to appear to be challenging an emerging orthodoxy. The organisation seems to me to have lost all common sense.

I prefer to post links to factual articles rather tham cherry pick quotes.

Please provide the same courtesy, I have ‘t been able to find much evidence of transwomen/transfeminine people being abused in UK public toilets? In fact, the only case I remember off the top of my head is was a dispute over a boyfriend in the ladies...

I know Datun

Next will be Section 28.

Anyway, my last point wasn’t about trans people committing crime/being victims of crime, it was about eroding the sexual/bodily boundaries of girls.

Every trans person I know is the opposite. Funny that.

Hugely doubt that's true. But this isn't a pissing contest.

The bottom line is that there are very, very many women and girls who see transwomen as men. No amount of berating them for their bigotry is going to change their perception of reality.

When you require that these women and girls share facilities with transwomen and transgirls, you are requiring them to share with men and boys.

Do you honestly not get that they don't want to be undressed next to men and boys, and that forcing them to do so feels like coersion? Would you EVER force a girl to get changed next to a boy that doesn't identify as trans?

Self ID has many issues, but the idea that anything other than a tiny fraction of people might consider using it to attempt to abuse others is ridiculous.

Interesting. Voyeurism and indecent exposure are crimes rife in this country. At the moment people have to hide or be sneaky.

Identifying as women eliminates that.

You're saying that common or garden predators would never take advantage of that. Although every angry, bitter, bullying misogynist won't either.

What's your reasoning?

Although should be And.

Sorry.

That’s OK - I don’t expect an anonymouse internet user to accept my word without evidence.

Luckily, I don’t need to betray the privacy of my friends, as there are increasing numbers of trans people coming out against self ID all the time, many of whom are very well informed - check out Debbie Hayton and Kristina Harrison’s articles in The Economist, for starters.

Debbie Hayton: www.economist.com/open-future/2018/07/03/gender-identity-needs-to-be-based-on-objective-evidence-rather-than-feelings

Kristina Harrison: www.economist.com/open-future/2018/07/03/a-system-of-gender-self-identification-would-put-women-at-risk

@topcat1980:
Self ID has many issues, but the idea that anything other than a tiny fraction of people might consider using it to attempt to abuse others is ridiculous.

Just to be clear, what is the level of abuse where you will find the risks of self id unacceptable then? 1 child molested? 10 women raped? 3 OAPs having their privacy and dignity invaded during care work? What? (And then what would you do about it given self id would be legal by that point?)

Most of the people who are trans are vulnerable individuals themselves, far more have been beaten up in men's bathrooms when forced to use them, than the infinitesimally small number of people who have used it as a cover for predatory attacks.

Can you provide the source for that stat please? I assume by your phrasing you mean men presenting as women being assaulted by other men. I'd like to compare it to assaults on women by men.

No trans woman has been killed or beaten in men's loos.

Evidence for that?

And, if rates are low, could it be because they are too scared to go in?

No trans person has ever been killed in a UK public loo (ladies or gents).

transcrimeuk.com/2017/11/16/trans-homicides-in-the-uk-a-closer-look-at-the-numbers/