AIBU to be shocked that the NSPCC cancelled their Facebook Live session with Mumsnetters, because they didn't like the questions? That they can't explain why they aren't putting children in danger?

[loveyouradvice]

I am reeling from this - Mumsnet promoted a Facebook Live for Thursday 12.30... to talk about keeping Kids safe from Abuse, and to publicise their PANTS and SpeakOut StaySafe campaigns.

NSPCC just didn't turn up - and only 4 hours later published a brief statement that said nothing!!!! So lots of people waiting for a no show.

It is fine for them to have the policies they have - IF THEY CAN EXPLAIN that they really are in all children's best interests and that they aren't putting girls at risk..... They haven't even tried to do that... Just ignored us and run. Ignored MUMSNET - which is full of people who raise or give money to the NSPCC, and who use it.

HOW??? I am bewildered beyond words.....

Oh ... and hopefully clicky link here of the questions Mumsnetters asked - really thoughtful cogent ones!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_facebook_live/a3343961-Facebook-Live-about-talking-to-kids-about-staying-safe-from-abuse-with-NSPCC

Oh dear, my head's not on straight, you said walk into a changing room not walk into a prison! I should stick to it when I walk away from a thread. Ah well, accept my apology if you will, no doubt I won't forget this!

Every single prisoner in a women's prison is subject to a risk assessment. If they pose an undue risk to other inmates they are housed in specialist facilities. These facilities are all in male prisons.

This is because the most secure units don't exist in female prisons.

"Every single prisoner in a women's prison is subject to a risk assessment. If they pose an undue risk to other inmates they are housed in specialist facilities. These facilities are all in male prisons."

Erm

what about those 4 women in prison recently assaulted by a trans offender
what about the reports from prison officers saying that women are uncomfortable with dicks in the shower
what about those 2 that had to be split up
what about teh one who kept sporting a stiffie at the women....

what about the fact that when 4 women were assaulted in prison by a trans prisoner, leading trans advocates immedidately accused those 4 women of lying?

I mean it's all hoseshit utter steaming wanking shit

There are loads and loads and loads of weirdy pervy men around. women know this we KNOW IT.

We dont' want them anywheer fucking near us and the solution to date that has been reasonably successful is SEX SEGREGATION.

But it would have descended into howls of frothing rage when the NSPCC when the NSPCC did not give the answers you wanted, and an even worse bit of PR.

Behold, a crystal ball gazer has arrived!

But it would have descended into howls of frothing rage when the NSPCC when the NSPCC did not give the answers you wanted, and an even worse bit of PR

This is true. You lot would have been incandescent. No one is allowed to say 'no' to you. Or even 'not now'.

NothingOnTellyAgain if you have damning evidence that the process of assessment is letting down other inmates you should challenge the prison service to do better. Campaign, get out there, why are you wasting time??

Do you have evidence that a system of risk assessment (that the prison service and government in partnership with psychologists and other professionals have decided is sufficient) does not result in the best outcomes all round, so long as it is properly implemented?

If you do, why do you think all of the relevant authorities disagree with you?

I'l say that again; why do you think ALL the relevant authorities disagree with you?

it would have descended into howls of frothing rage when the NSPCC when the NSPCC did not give the answers you wanted, and an even worse bit of PR

Oh would it?

Oh if we are playing that game then i think that gender woukd have posted a random unicorn emoji that betty would have taken offence at at dragon emoji are obviously better...gender would have apologised and betty woukd have accepted and thebewilderness would pop on with a lemon curd recipe and the NSPCC would have popped back just long enough to make a note of the ingredients

I mean we can all make shit up that never happened and pretend to know that it would

This article by Sarah Ditum sums it up nicely:

www.newstatesman.com/politics/feminism/2018/01/marie-dean-story-shows-there-s-no-simple-answer-how-we-treat-transgender

Marie Dean is a voyeur and sex offender imprisoned for an indeterminate time.

gender

I have no interest in satisfying your curiosity. If you wanted to see a discussion with NSPCC about PANTS, you shouldn't have closed down the discussion (because you did, a discussion about trans is not a discussion about their PANTS campaign).

Please show me where I asked that the topic be ignored.
See above. You and your cronies made the discussion impossible. It wasn't a 'topic' - it was the focus of the discussion. And yes, you clearly do think PANTS is irrelevant to children's safety because you did that.

I would have valued the opportunity to read and talk about it. Mumsnet was quite right in thinking this would be of benefit to parents. But because of people like you, it didn't happen

Well to be fair

It was because of people like you that it didn't happen

Rat Marie Dean was refused by the relevant authorities.

Every single prisoner in a women's prison is subject to a risk assessment. If they pose an undue risk to other inmates they are housed in specialist facilities.

There are known issues with this assertion.

Prison governors and other professionals have repeatedly raised concerns:
"Andrea Albutt, president of the Prison Governors Association, who has managed men’s and women’s jails, said: ‘I have seen women feeling very threatened by transgender prisoners’ presence.

‘Women prisoners are very vulnerable. A lot have abusive men in their lives, who are part of the reason they have ended up in prison.

'To put all men who declare they are women into women’s prisons would be very damaging."
Francis Crook (Howard Prison Reform): "said that she was worried that ‘some men with a history of extreme violence and sexual violence against women have found a new way of exercising aggression towards women’.
'These men are not transitioning because they like women and want to be a woman, but in order to exert a new kind of control and dominance over women, a sort of infiltration.'

Source Mail on Sunday:
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5798945/Trans-women-convicted-men-attack-vulnerable-inmates.html

July 2018
'A transgender prisoner has been charged with committing four sexual offences against inmates at a women's jail in West Yorkshire.

Karen White, 51, is accused of four counts of sexual touching at New Hall Prison, Wakefield.'

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-44877856

From earlier in year, issues in Scottish Prisons:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3242178-Transgender-killers-split-up-by-prison-chiefs

Every single prisoner in a women's prison is subject to a risk assessment. If they pose an undue risk to other inmates they are housed in specialist facilities. These facilities are all in male prisons.

WHEN THEY GET OUT. Them and all the other sex offenders who are just wandering around right now.

FFS. Are you this obtuse naturally or are you working hard at it? it's the second one isn't it?

FFS. Are you this obtuse naturally or are you working hard at it?

Oh, you missed my second post. No bother, I'll say it again; I didn't read your post properly. Sorry. God strike me down with lightening, this never happens to anyone ever. I must be a dunce.

"Do you have evidence that a system of risk assessment (that the prison service and government in partnership with psychologists and other professionals have decided is sufficient) does not result in the best outcomes all round, so long as it is properly implemented?

If you do, why do you think all of the relevant authorities disagree with you?"

They don't

There have been multiple flags rasied by various individuals and groups across the prison service in the UK around this.
Try google.

Or by "relevant authorities" do you mean orgs like the trans one that wants all trans prisoners released immediately?

or the anti "carceral" trans groups who want all prison terms replaced with "restorative justice" as per prominent activist jess whatstheirface who has been wanking at bus stops with their frock on?

you're on a hiding to nothing with this

women said all this was a gift for creepy perves and OH LOOK what a surprise

There have been multiple flags rasied by various individuals and groups across the prison service in the UK around this.

Clearly they're not the authorities I was referring to, as they're not the ones who make the decisions. Those would be the relevant authorities, exactly as I worded it in my post.

Any man and his dog can disagree with something, but when there are people in the position of best knowledge and experience in a field that they have the ultimate say in how things should be done, those tend to be the people to look to.

Sure, no-one is beyond reproach, people get things wrong - those in authority are no exception - and if you think it doesn't work, sure! Get writing. But don't unilaterally decide that the only answer is to deny to possibility of any genuine trans person being housed in the women's estate without any evidence whatsoever that that is a proportionate response or necessary to solve the problem as you perceive it, because blanket exclusionary answer to complex and nuanced questions are bigotry. Sorry, I know you lot hate the word, but frankly that's what it's called.

August 1st 2018
www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/3006679/paedophile-jailed-transgender-christyl-knight-christopher-nobile/

(Extracts)
The con is desperate for a fresh start but child protection expert Claude Knights said: “Allowing these individuals to hide a secret past is a dangerous practice.”

"[Margaret-Ann Cummings, a campaigner whose son was murdered by a convicted sex-offender] added: “It’s not unusual for sex offenders to want a new identity but this is the most disturbing case I’ve heard of.

“When someone, so soon after getting out of jail, is trying to change not just their name but their sex and appearance too, it sounds like they’re trying to hide rather than reform.”

Echoing her calls, child protection expert Claude Knights said: “Anyone who’s fuelled the vile trade in indecent images of children and therefore contributed to their sexual abuse should not be allowed to change their name.”

Intresting to note that Claude Knight has commented.
She has recently retired after 15 years as head of Kidscape: www.kidscape.org.uk/news/2016/may/ceo-claude-knights-announces-her-retirement

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3324391-Paedophile-expert-warns-of-transitioning-as-a-ploy

Significant background to escalation of online child protection concerns:
BBC article today:
'Sajid Javid threatens tech giants over online child sex abuse'
(extract)
"Referrals of child abuse images to the National Crime Agency (NCA) have surged by 700% in the last five years, according to new figures - and the NCA estimates that about 80,000 people in the UK present some kind of sexual threat to children online."
(continues)
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45389937

But don't unilaterally decide that the only answer is to deny to possibility of any genuine trans person being housed in the women's estate

What's a genuine trans person?

Governors and officers do not agree with Stonewall, and neither does the MOJ, which is why Tara Hudson is suing the government:

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jan/20/tara-hudson-transgender-prisoner-sues-government

Prision Governors (in other words the experts) express concerns about male prisoners identifying as transwomen in order to be housed in the female estate.
www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5798945/amp/Trans-women-convicted-men-attack-vulnerable-inmates.html

Oh my god, 0.05% of the prison population are trans sex offenders!

So common we must derail a conversations about protecting children from the far more prevalent types of sex offenders.

We must pour our boiling incandescent rage at a charity which has protected and aided children for decades because our niche issue cannot let go.

A question about trans prisoners was asked by a Mumsnet user and we answered it.

Which is more than the NSPCC is willing to do, apparently.

(As an aside, trans prisoners are significantly more likely to be in prison for sex offences than non-trans prisoners, male or female. You might not think that’s a topic worth considering Topcat but it doesn’t mean everyone else has to dismiss it with a wave of your paw)

What percentage of the population of the Uk are trans?

How does this correlate with 0.05% of the prison population being trans? Is it low? High? Average?

Genuine question. I dont post on these topics as a rule.