AIBU to be shocked that the NSPCC cancelled their Facebook Live session with Mumsnetters, because they didn't like the questions? That they can't explain why they aren't putting children in danger?

[loveyouradvice]

I am reeling from this - Mumsnet promoted a Facebook Live for Thursday 12.30... to talk about keeping Kids safe from Abuse, and to publicise their PANTS and SpeakOut StaySafe campaigns.

NSPCC just didn't turn up - and only 4 hours later published a brief statement that said nothing!!!! So lots of people waiting for a no show.

It is fine for them to have the policies they have - IF THEY CAN EXPLAIN that they really are in all children's best interests and that they aren't putting girls at risk..... They haven't even tried to do that... Just ignored us and run. Ignored MUMSNET - which is full of people who raise or give money to the NSPCC, and who use it.

HOW??? I am bewildered beyond words.....

Oh ... and hopefully clicky link here of the questions Mumsnetters asked - really thoughtful cogent ones!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_facebook_live/a3343961-Facebook-Live-about-talking-to-kids-about-staying-safe-from-abuse-with-NSPCC

Read the thread in question. There was no pile on, flooding, or derailing. There were no questions at all for days after the thread was posted. Then there were 2 pages of respectful, entirely safeguarding focussed, logical questions. Then the NSPCC refused to answer them. Since then, obviously, there have been many more pages of discussion of that fact.

Imagine being so much of a cunt, that you try to threaten and bully an organization such as NSPCC because at an event to discuss one thing aimed at helping children, they dont want to discuss somethingelse, that while related, is not the topic of discussion

Imagine being so much of a cunt that you successfully threaten and bully a clothes swap meeting for women and children to cancel because you disagree with the organisers' politics (which were completely irrelevant to this meeting). cf Dr Radfem.

One of many examples of businesses, organisations and even people who are being threatened and bullied into silence.
For shame indeed.

Everyone was able to submit questions. There was no hijacking. These questions are pertinent to the current debate of keeping children safe from abuse. The NSPCC just didn't like them.

Bold fail - first para should be bolded. Sorry.

At the very most, a child might get puberty blockers to effectively 'buy them time ' or if psychologically they can't cope with going through puberty in that gender.

Ah, those harmless little pills, which are as safe as smarties

There is a thread on Lupron here Roughly 1000 children are on them in the UK alone. They can cause osteoperosis so bad that some children end up having serious spinal problems in their 20's.

And there are children buying drugs over the internet - we have no idea what risks they're opening themselves up to.

But pfft, nothing to see here, right?

The PANTS campaign is, frankly, old news. My DD did this at school last year, so most of us already know about it and have already asked any questions we may have had.

Many of us are seriously concerned about the effect the Trans Rights movement will have on our children. That’s why so many asked those questions - and they are still available to read so no need to misrepresent them as a pile-on or a hijack, you can read for yourself.

It would be good if someone with authority on Safeguarding were to explain why our fears are unfounded, how the recent scandals are being addressed so they do not happen again, and how our children will be protected.

Right now, I am seeing stuff about TRAs in adult nappies, attempts to trans toddlers - complete with their own phalluses to put in their knickers - and I am very, very concerned. I am seeing reports of men and teens identifying as women and abusing women and girls.

And all I see in response is trans allies and activists covering it up, denying its happening and the authorities listening to them.

There is an idea on this thread that on the day of the thread, a mob of pushy women forced their way into a webchat room and barricaded the door so no one else could have their say.

This is ridiculous. As a gender critical mumsnetter I don't personally know any of the other women here. I am one individual with a strong opinion. There are many other webchats on here which have failed in the past, in the sense of having no one engage with them. Such is life. No one was engaging with this one either. It was all set to be a flop. Such is life when there is lots competing for our attention.

All the while that gender critical MNers were posting, other people could have come on and asked questions. It's really a pretty democratic process. What were the other questions that people would have liked to ask, had we lowered our pitchforks for a second? You are most welcome to list them here.

In all my 11 years of being here I've never seen such a bizarre outpouring of anger that a small group of women asked some questions. Suddenly we are responsible for the abuse of thousands of children who needed that webchat to stay safe? It is absurd. Women have spent millenia having no voice and you want to shut some of us up?

The only way to do that is to engage with us, talk to us and throw some facts and some science at us to prove us wrong and show us our concerns are misplaced. It's actually very simple.

Do people really think that putting children who are unhappy with their gender or are dysphoric into the toilets and changing rooms of the "opposite sex" is a good idea?

Most will be trans boys who may have to deal with periods, growth of breasts etc. I can see very few of these trans boys wanting to be in the boys facilities. These trans boys might also feel self conscious in the girls toilets and changing rooms.

Wouldn't sensible guidance be that schools must have suitable facilities to provide safety, dignity, privacy and if possible inclusion to both these children and those who are not "transitioning"

I would like to see that the NSPCC had considered this, not just taken policies from Mermaids and GIRES as a foregone conclusion.

There is also a clear contradiction between the Pants' advice of saying you are not comfortable with something and telling girls or indeed boys to put up with it if they don't feel comfortable with a trans child in the toilets and changing rooms, or in the girl guides case, a trans woman brown owl giving personal care at camp.
This is not transphobic and the NSPCC should be able to explain this contradiction if following their policies and guidance throw this up.

Frankly its hilarious that the only evidence you can come up with of men claiming to be trans in order to access women's bathrooms are 3 cases split amongst a population of about450m. Even the one in Scotland you are reading a lot into to confirm your bias.

So coming out with this: " I am seeing reports of men and teens identifying as women and abusing women and girls. "

Yeah, how many? How many sex attacks are carried out by Trans people per year? You know they would be easy to find because sure as shit the newspapers do not report them as "being women."

When 0.005% of the population identify as being Transgender, and 50% of those are women identifying as men, and then even fewer of those are male children at school who identify as transgender, then yes you are being ridiculous to derail this with your questions.

You are being ridiculous to flag up the dangers of men identifying as women to use changing rooms and toilets in order to abuse women and attack children. The fact that you can come up with so few cases demonstrates this.

You daughter is much, much more likely to be abused by your husband/DP, you are much, much more likely to be raped by them. Over 90% of cases happen with someone known and trusted by the family, even the much reported grooming gangs only take up about 2.5% of all sex cases in the last 5 years.

The NSPCC were due to talk about a different issue, not deal with the mumsnet hysteria and yes it is hysteria perpetrated by the vacuous and the disingenuous who do it for more nefarious reasons.

TAnith

I,like thousands of other people, live in a remote rural area and have children who are just beginning to be of the right age for the pants advice. I would have valued the opportunity to read and talk about it. Mumsnet was quite right in thinking this would be of benefit to parents. But because of people like you, it didn't happen.

So fuck off with your arrogant, dismissive bullshit.

gender

WHY are you suggesting we list our questions for the NSPCC here? Quite frankly, you are the last person I'd go to die advice on this issue as you obviously find it irrelevant to children, to the point of insisting that the topic be ignored and everyone talk about something else instead. I know radical feminists are arrogant but that takes the biscuit.

Where was your question to the NSPCC TopCat

Ignoring safeguarding issues or skirting around it actually harms trans people who are at most risk, like everyone else, from being attacked by men.

I'm baffled by the abuse happens somewhere else, we can only deal with one thing at a time pov.

Thinking back to school, I'd be astonished if any woman who went to a mixed school couldn't think of at least one boy who would abuse self id. Way back before camera phones were an issue I remember a boy sneaking up to the girls changing room with an old style camera and taking a picture while we were getting changed. He'd have been all over self ID like a rash.

The PANTS campaign is on the NSPCC website.

I’m sure many, many posters on here have been trained on it if anybody has any questions.

Mumsnet was quite right in thinking this would be of benefit to parents. But because of people like you, it didn't happen

But you didn't bother to ask a question.

You say you want the chance to discuss it, but given the chance, didn't.

Ignoring safeguarding?

What issues were they ignoring? They made a statement about safeguarding children and trans issues, it was adequate and addressed the point.

People on here want to make it about the multitudes of men and boys who are going to pretend to be women to access the toilets.

Won't somebody think of the children.

Specifically the hysterical red top reading masses of MN.

Thread PANTS is available online via the NSPCC website. All good schools will give children this advice - if you are not sure, then ask if it is given.

"Thinking back to school, I'd be astonished if any woman who went to a mixed school couldn't think of at least one boy who would abuse self id."

Yes because schools are just going to let boy who claims one day to identify as female use the girls changing room and toilets.

No, Topcat, it's contradictory to the PANTS guide and if you've ever done safeguarding training as I have, ignores the guidance to never promise a child that their secret will be safe with you.

WHY are you suggesting we list our questions for the NSPCC here?

I'm interested to know what you would have liked to ask. If there are enough questions, MN can forward them onto the NSPCC with ease.

Quite frankly, you are the last person I'd go to die advice on this issue as you obviously find it irrelevant to children

What a disgusting thing to say. I am engaging in this debate precisely because I am interested in the well being of children and reducing abuse in society. I am heavily supporting a woman in real life who grew up being abused by her father from the age of 3. I have been sexually assaulted myself. I have been perfectly polite in all my posts. Nothing I've written warrants that kind of response.

to the point of insisting that the topic be ignored and everyone talk about something else instead

Please show me where I asked that the topic be ignored. I would like to see the exact quote.

I have stated that other people could easily have added questions you loon

"No, Topcat, it's contradictory to the PANTS guide and if you've ever done safeguarding training as I have, ignores the guidance to never promise a child that their secret will be safe with you."

What is contracdictory to the PANTS guide or safeguarding training?

The issue on MN is that people will just suddenly identify as trans in order to exploit self ID to abuse people.

Its so unlikely and will happen so infrequently you might as well be afraid of zombies

You know they would be easy to find because sure as shit the newspapers do not report them as "being women."

This isn't a report of a sexual crime but this man is being reported as a woman.

You are behind the times. There have been several new reports in the last few months which absolutely are reporting male crimes as female.

"will happen so infrequently"
Oh, well, that's ok then if you say it'll only happen infrequently

Yes because schools are just going to let boy who claims one day to identify as female use the girls changing room and toilets.

That is, in fact, what is happening.

Frankly pulling up crimes from the US to post as evidence is pathetic, and the fact that you all have to do so, so many times shows that there number of incidents here is really low.

In the UK there is no way that a sex crime, which was perpetrated by a transwoman would be reported as anything as such.