Kim Woodburn continued...

[obviouslyperfect]

New thread and still wondering why there has been no apology or acknowledgement of the incident in Loose Women last week.

Thing is with people saying they think Kim has mental health issues...
I actually don't think she does. Emotional scarring yes

Yes, it's a minefield. What constitutes 'mental health issues'? Diagnosed ones? Because many can't even get seen, let alone any diagnosis.

I have had a diagnosis, so 'MH issues'? Yet they are clearly trauma related so should I just be 'emotionally scarred' instead.

The truth is, there are times a diagnosis (if I used it) could help me for example, it could stop me being discriminated against for example, at work. Then other times, it can hinder me - for example, if I get angry for a valid reason and it is labelled as being oversensitive, touchy or unreasonable.

I agree persoanlity disorders are not understood well at all, but I also think is the same still for the vast majority of health disorders, and that public awareness and acceptance is vastly overstated. Phrases such as crazy/ mental case/ psychotic/ should be locked up are still everyday, acceptable language.

As an aside - I'm disgusted with ITV/ LW for having the arrogance to think it is acceptable to not even acknowledge something that resulted in thousands of OFCOM complaints. How dare they think it is OK to upset large numbers of their viewers, then think they are all stupid enough not to notice how they have tried to 'bury the bad news' during the CBB thing. And as for the predictable news from CN about how traumatic to receive the 'abuse' she is - ugh, just get fuck right off, you do not have a clue.

I definitely agree that Kim back in the day was considered normal... definitely a matron type.
I love her I've always liked her ever since HCIYH.
Very interesting other post about the mental health issues. It is definitely a minefield,
I am diagnosed with Borderline Personality and do see a lot of my behaviours in how Kim has reacted ...But...do I only think that because I have a diagnoses of it ? Before I had the diagnoses I would have just said I was passionate and honest and yes would get wound up but for valid reasons... so where do we draw that line.
I just get the impression Kim is a person people fine way to rile and revel in the aftermath because they get to call her a 'fruit loop'
Personality disorder or passionate and strong ..difficult one.

Yes, I also cannot fathom how no one on itv has brought this up. It's completely baffling ? That in itself is like an abusers push and pull tactic....
I know it sounds silly but I am likening this whole debacle to emotional abuse but...
. Goads someone to the point where they appear 'crazy'
. Victim gets ignored, feelings invalidated
. The aftermath is the silent treatment therefore still not acknowledging victims feelings making them feel crazy/guilty
. The bully comes across charming/get people on side/ convince others the victim is the problem.

I think that what is considered a mental health disorder changes according to time and place.

Personally, I consider the manipulative, passive aggressive speshul snowflake syndrome to be more of a threat than anything - excluding sociopathy of course - and I sincerely hope that people get back to being authentic and a bit more resilient - and that includes you, Coleen Nolan - and your sister

@knittedwoollenmouse agree !!!

Those types are terrifying haha !

If Ofcom seem it necessary to investigate, they’ll all be in for it though won’t they?

Perhaps they are not apologising because it might show some guilt and they are waiting for the Ofcom decision?

Cowardly and no integrity if so.

deem it necessary...

What will Ofcom do?

Ofcom fine those who break their code. Could cost the programme a lot.

I am diagnosed with Borderline Personality and do see a lot of my behaviours in how Kim has reacted ...But...do I only think that because I have a diagnoses of it ?

Same here, and yes, I've found I can understand and empathise with an awful lot of her behaviours - I think that is probably why it hit such a nerve- I see the vulnerable, scared lady under the tough act and big mouth! She should not have been in that situation. And fair play to her, she removed herself from the situation too and didn't have to be dragged off or anything trying to get the last word!. So she did control her behaviour pretty well in that way..

But then - there's the thing - BPD - Personality disorder? Yet Complex PTSD (very little difference to BPD in the diagnostic criteria) - MH issue, not personalty disorder. Where's the difference? So many grey areas.

I just long for a day tolerance will be such that people don't need 'labels', and are just accepted for the individual that they are. Because ultimately, all of us are flawed in some way.

@PrickWhittington brilliantly put :)

I know it sounds silly but I am likening this whole debacle to emotional abuse but...
. Goads someone to the point where they appear 'crazy'
. Victim gets ignored, feelings invalidated
. The aftermath is the silent treatment therefore still not acknowledging victims feelings making them feel crazy/guilty
. The bully comes across charming/get people on side/ convince others the victim is the problem.

Doesn't sound silly at all! You've just sort of summed up the story of my life there . and I bet I'm certainly not the only one who identifies massively with what you describe there. Both of the people you describe in that scenario are behaving in a toxic manner, but one's fine, the other's not!

I just long for a day tolerance will be such that people don't need 'labels', and are just accepted for the individual that they are. Because ultimately, all of us are flawed in some way.

Like my grandfather says it used to be when he was at school. Class clown, now adhd. Loner, now social skills issues.

Like my grandfather says it used to be when he was at school. Class clown, now adhd. Loner, now social skills issues

Wise words. We just all need more tolerance. Somehow.

@PrickWhittington i am a mental health nurse and i cant stand the BPD/EUPD diagnoses.

Trauma is enough to describe these people's experiences.

@NoMudNoLotus I have just started a thread about people armchair diagnosing Roxanne Pallett with a Personality Disorder. It upsets/ riles me because a lot of people with this diagnoses wouldn't act like her. It could just be that she is a horrid manipulative person.

a mental health nurse and i cant stand the BPD/EUPD diagnoses

trauma is enough to describe these people's experiences

I agree, I was given a diagnosis, but I don't see my self as having BPD. I don't think my problems are an illness, but a dysfunction due to all the maladaptive patterns I had to use and cope with to get through the abuse I suffered.

But unfortunately, 'trauma' may have been enough to describe it, but not enough to enable me to access any of the help and support I desperately needed to live any sort of normal life.

That said, in the current climate even a diagnosis of BPD/ PTSD or similar gets you sod all help where I am. Just medication, if you're lucky. That said, at least now there is SOME awareness, so hopefully we're getting there

dysfunction due to all the maladaptive patterns I had to use and cope with to get through the abuse I suffered.

I think that's a very perceptive comment Prick.

We learn self-protective behaviours when we are young, and those patterns become embedded - we resort to them automatically throughout our lives, I think - our "default settings" so to speak - without even being aware that we are doing so.

We can become aware, but it is hard work, and when under extreme stress, all of our hard work goes out of the window, because we are in a panic situation.

We are getting to the point where everyday bad behaviour is excused and explained by medicalising it. Nobody's vain and selfish, they have narcissistic pd. Nobody's a miserable bad tempered old bat but they have an undiagnosed MH disorder. Frankly, some people are vile for a myriad of reasons. A bit more intolerance and fewer 'oh he/shecan't help it' would improve life for everyone. Indulging anti social behaviour encourages more.

The thing I've noticed about Kim, is like anyone else she hates being interrupted. And she is constantly interrupted by people so then she raises her voice to get heard . She also uses body language a lot and speaks with her hands but people are saying she's rude , aggressive and a bully , ( the people against Kim ) the best example of this is her loose women interview...
She's just wanting to be heard and not interrupted... She has manners and expects people to have them to.
I myself can not stand being interrupted and if a sensitive subject I had suffered was being spoken about like abuse and people kept talking over me and belittling me I too would get pretty angry.

@longwayoff hit the nail on the head there

CN is on This Morning today at 10.45. She'll be plugging her tour, but let's see if she addresses what I think was outrageous behaviour last week? I'm not holding my breath.