To think university snobbery must stop

[Staceystace]

I was telling a friend about my nephew who is off to University. I said to her he is off to x uni to study English, she said oh I didn’t even realise that was even a uni. She then went on to emphasise how her daughter is off to a top 20 uni, she went on to say how she wouldn’t have gone if it was not a Russell or 1994 group as she does not think it is worth the debt. I just got the vibe she was looking down on my nephews uni. Aibu to think this sort of snobbery about unis is terrible and needs to stop. My nephew is not the most academic, but surely not everyone is capable of going to a russell group.

BlaaBlaaBlaa, your emoticon is coming up as a bottle of gin on my screen?

Just to clarify, i meant as far the locals are concerned because they will always be comparing them to those old two. But yes! Oxford Brookes is doing very very well, one of top ex-poly's if not the top one, but you can see from Whirlys DD's comments that they don't see it.

I was going for rolling eyes at your dreadfully misinformed opinions

pastaandpesto

A first being over 70% is pretty standard at RG institutions, including Oxbridge. Yours is unusual in that regard.

Agree with math on the value of the Institutes of Technology in Ireland. They aren’t research powerhouses but offer a really good span of programmes in a wide variety of technical and vocational fields. They are degree-awarding institutions, but also offer diplomas, certificates and pass degrees, depending on how much of a particular course you complete.

It’s a shame the U.K. opted for a different route. There are a small number of post-92s offering excellent programmes in some traditional academic areas, and of course many post-92s excel in specific often vocational areas, but it would be better to have a clearer distinction between different types of institution. I think the whole thing is currently a confusing minefield, especially for young people who don’t have the educational and cultural capital to make properly informed choices about what to study where (or even if they should pursue higher education).

Pluto thats true of any 2nd class uni in a town with a red brick. Mancs met, nottingham trent, york st john etc. Then you get new universities in cities without a redbrick eg uni of lincoln. Which are equivalent to the 2nd tiers but sound like a 'proper', ie RG uni, by using 'university of.....' rather than city name first.
You really need to be informed to know what youre getting

I regularly recruit for a specialist area of the Civil Service. It does not matter what University the candidate attended, it quite simply doesn't register at all . And I didn't go to University, so quite frankly I don't give a monkeys as to who went where.

It all boils down to how good their application is and how strong the examples they provided were. That's it. If your CV says you graduated from Cambridge with a first, but your application is shite then you probably won't even get an interview.

@AuditBird

Exactly the same where I work (public sector). I'm involved in recruitment and it's basically a tick box exercise. Their application has to demonstrate that they meet the essential criteria of the job spec. That's it. None of the job criteria stipulate a degree from Oxbridge.

In fact, my most recent recruitment exercise we had a graduate from Oxford. Didn't get an interview as he didn't meet a single criteria.

Agreed GreenMeerkat

We really don't give a pass straight through to interview because candidates have attended certain universites. It doesn't work like that anymore. If an application isn't good enough it will be sifted out, regardless of what Uni the candidate went to and what classification of degree they got.

@math Take a look at Robert Gordon University. Previously known as Robert Gordon's Institute of Technology, a central institution. In fact, if you Google RGIT, it still brings up ads for oilfield safety courses by other providers. We HAD institutes of technology which became universities.

That is what is so sad about it, TooManyPaws - it was all there, and there was a strong tradition of technical schooling and pride in technical education and skill, mechanics institutions and workingmen's colleges and their successors, and it was squandered.

BlahBlahBlah misinformed about what?

I think the biggest issue here is that you say your nephew isn't academic but he's about to go to university to do a three year course in English.

Your friend put it bluntly but I think the point stands that it's a huge amount of money involved so it's worth questioning whether it's going to be good value for him.

pastaandpesto I don’t know where you went to uni where you had to get 90 for a first but here’s the lowdown:

The passmark for an ug degree course is 40%. At all English unis. Seriously.

The grade boundary for a first is 70%. For all English unis. Including Oxbridge.

All this ‘they pass with lower grades’ stuff is bollocks. Actually, the proportion of 2.1 and above grades is significantly lower at post-92s than it is at most pre-92s. Seems odd seeing as some people on here think they give out firsts like they are smarties.

I don’t even have a vested interest- I went to v good universities that I am sure the snobs on here would approve of but peddling all this shite is unnecessary. The hallowed RG was scrabbling around in clearning this year, offering places to people with C grades. They also grade-inflate like anybody’s business. I have inside info

Sorry above should say Clearing

@peaks you're absolutely spot on.

@math well, starting with your first comment about fees/debt putting off bright students. Simply not true. I won't bore you with a full data report but since the new fee regime was introduced in 2012 we have seen a steady increase in applications. This year applications were down 0.9% bit this is due to demographics - there is a dip in the number of 18 year olds which is not set to recover until 2020. Universities have been preparing for this for years.
Also, all the research shows that finance does not deter students from applying.

Secondly, the 1992 FE and HE act was complex and was devised to address a number of problems in the sector. Polytechnics were universities in all but name (and often funding) and most have kept their vocational heritage. Also, the idea that we should have kept the previous system is incredibly elitest. Under the old system, university was out of reach for many students simply due to their socioeconomic status. We still have huge amounts of snobbery around HE (as this thread shows) but at least bright students from poor backgrounds have more chance of attending university.

There are huge issues with vocational education in this country which needs to be addressed but that should be through a properly funded and resourced apprenticeship system.

There is snobbery with universities for a good reason in that for many universities a degree actually lowers your earnings statistically and it would be better for your son not yo go to them !

I knew there was snobbery around degrees but I have genuinely been left open-mouthed by some of the attitudes here.

@vienna wow. Just wow. Have you got any data or research to back up your ridiculous statement?

StarsHollow123
I agree. 3 years worth of university tuition fees and loans is around £50,000, which is a lot of money for someone not very academic to do an English degree. I think the friend has a point.

What I would say is that saying when someone is clearly excited about going is quite rude and pissing on their parade a bit.

JillCrewesmum
Some are snobby. Some are just realistic.

You teach the cohort in front of you. Not every class at school is going to be a high cohort that can access top end challginf material and get 9s. Not all a level studenys will get As. Logic follows that not all university courses are going to be equal. A course seminar with people who have Ds at A level isn't going to have comparable depth to a seminar where straight A students are debating.

I did some study at non red brick and at a top uni. I know which demanded more of me as a student. It was the red brick university. I'd feel patronized if someone tried to tell me the 2 courses were comparable because it's giving everyone a chance. Bollocks. One was much easier than the other.

I think there's warning someone about the credibility of a university and discussing the pros and cons (like we do here on MN) and there's being a snob about someone elses choices. Lets be honest here, OP's friend was not trying to warn her, she didn't have her best interests at heart and have a candid conversation and about different university and graduate outcomes. She wanted to show off how much more superior her DD was whilst having a sharp dig at OP's DN's choice. This is what upset OP.

I don't think OP is ignorant of the fact universities aren't all the same. What the DF did was unpleasant because she was not coming from a place of concern for OP's nephew it was about showing how much better she was and revelling in it.

I think there's warning someone about the credibility of a university and discussing the pros and cons (like we do here on MN) and there's being a snob about someone elses choices
Yes. And they are different. However much people may like to pretend that everything is equal and all are viewed as having the same academic standard, discussing pros cons and critiques of universities is not being snobby.
What the DF did was unpleasant because she was not coming from a place of concern for OP's nephew it was about showing how much better she was and revelling in it.
Spot on.

Discussing pros and cons is not snobby - it's sensible providing you're not making assumptions and are actually using the wealth of days and information out there.

Assuming all RG and red brick universities are better than 'ex-polys' and casting aspersions towards those that attend the latter is snobbery - plain and simple.

*data not days

In addition to that, how does the friend know that the DN isn't planning on graduating from his current uni to then further his studies by doing a Masters at a much more regarded university? there's more than one way to skin a cat. Sometimes people are so intent on putting others down they forget there is more than one route to success.

CNAA STEM degrees were extremely high quality. But did the CNAA validate any English degrees? Indeed, did they validate any humanities degrees?

My degree is CNAA from a polytechnic - History and Sociology.