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Original poster

Why does my daughter have to have butterfly or heart zipper pulls on her school uniform?

282 replies

MsMotherOfDragons · 30/08/2018 13:15

Just that, really.

Why do the school uniform options for girls not have things like rocket or dinosaur charms? And why don't they have pockets?!! It drives me wild.

I've looked at several of the main supermarkets and they all seem to have the same problem. Eventually I went for the Sainsbury's ones on the basis of price and quality, so we're stuck with butterflies on everything.

Can I replace them with something else... does anyone know where to get rocket charms or similar? Can anyone recommend a better supplier? I'm kind of appalled that all the gender nonsense starts so early. It's so unnecessary.

OP posts:
Original poster
MsMotherOfDragons · 31/08/2018 11:38

"Suppliers follow consumer demand- if there was no demand for hearts and butterflies they wouldn't sell them."

This isn't true. I have bought four jersey skirts and two jersey dresses with butterfly charms on them because I have no other affordable choice on the high street. I'm posting this to raise awareness about the lack of choice.

FWIW I do completely agree with the poster saying it is harder for boys to wear girls' clothing than vice versa. I feel really sorry for little boys having such a drab array of colours on offer on the high street, it's quite depressing just to walk through!

OP posts:
Brambleboo · 31/08/2018 11:41

I believe there are other, more important, things to worry about when it comes to our children.

Cut the charms off if you want to.

Kpo58 · 31/08/2018 11:58

Having butterfly and flower charms isn't the issue. Not having other options such as dinosaurs and rockets ones are.

As a child I would have hated anything with hearts on it. To me hearts = love and means that you can only think about going out with boys. This is part of the stereotype that I had of girls where all they seemed to think about was going out with boys and make up. TBF, I did go to an all girl's school and that did seem to be about 85% of the conversations that most of the girls were having in class.

Noqont · 31/08/2018 11:59

I don't like it either op.

Original poster
MsMotherOfDragons · 31/08/2018 11:59

Of course there are more important things to worry about, but that doesn't mean that this is an unimportant issue or not worth exploring.

Taking that approach would mean that society never did anything about the microaggressions that, taken together, are the hallmarks of systemic, institutional sexism (or racism).

OP posts:
Winterbella · 31/08/2018 12:06

This is not an issue, if you don't like them buy the ones without them on from a school supply shop not a supermarket. personally my girls don't have an issue and couldn't care less whats on the end of the zip. not everything needs to be a crusade

Original poster
MsMotherOfDragons · 31/08/2018 12:06

"Having butterfly and flower charms isn't the issue. Not having other options such as dinosaurs and rockets ones are." Exactly! Thanks @Kpo58

I remember liking flowers as a child, but as an adult my overwhelming impression is that the messaging on girls clothing is very limiting and passive. Slogans on boys clothing seems to be more about getting out and doing things (e.g. space exploration) versus slogans on girls clothing which seem to be about how you look (e.g. flowers and hearts). However of course the problem on the opposite side is that boys receive the message that feeling emotions or seeing oneself as beautiful/attractive is "not for them", which is also terribly sad and damaging.

OP posts:
AnxiousPeg · 31/08/2018 12:07

Totally agree with you OP.

As it happens, my daughters wouldn't mind hearts/ bows etc - but they didn't form these preferences in a vacuum!

People denying there are any sexist messages at play are being wilfully blind, I fear.

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 31/08/2018 13:32

If kids are taking their self worth from the slogan on their tshirt, that’s an issue. Thankfully it just doesn’t happen.

Noqont · 31/08/2018 14:20

If kids are taking their self worth from the slogan on their tshirt, that’s an issue. Thankfully it just doesn’t happen.

Actually, it's all part of the bigger picture. And it does have an effect and it does happen.

SoupDragon · 31/08/2018 14:24

"Having butterfly and flower charms isn't the issue. Not having other options such as dinosaurs and rockets ones are."

I don’t think that is the issue. Boys uniform doesn’t seem to have the decorative dangly stuff on at all does it? It’s been a long time since I bought boys primary uniform though!

Lookingforadvice123 · 31/08/2018 14:24

I don't have much sympathy sorry as other than Next (and sometimes Zara), there's always such a tiny crap selection of boys clothes, mainly in dull colours and limited to vehicles and dinosaurs. There's so much more variety of girls clothes and it's far from all the stereotypical pink - Morrison's have a great selection this autumn of burgundy etc.

Sorry massive tangent! But, I think you're being overly fussy.

JillCrewesmum · 31/08/2018 14:24

I couldn't have cared less if dd had worn 'follow your dreams' tops and butterfly zips. But she hated them and still does. A simple sporty design would have been great, but we had to look hard online for nice plain styles or wear boys t-shirts. I remember one particular trip to h and m when all the girls ts were covered in particularly sickly slogans. Luckily the boys had plain blue with New York etc on so we could get those.

Ontopofthesunset · 31/08/2018 14:40

It is possible to care about more than one thing at the same time, you know.

Supply follows demand but in many cases demand is created by supply. There weren't hordes of parents and girls 20 years ago asking where the clothes with butterfly zips were. Manufacturers just want to sell more so of course it's better for them to hyperfeminise and hypermasculinise clothes and toys. It's absolutely bizarre that in a world where gender appears to be considered as fluid and infinite in number, the male and female genders are being segregated more and more.

Baby girls aren't all born (if any of them are) with an innate predilection for pink, butterflies, hearts and caring sharing things. Baby boys aren't all born (if any of them are) with an instinctive pull towards camouflage, guns and tractors. They are socialised from birth and we've been socialised in our turn. Of course we want butterflies if everyone gives us butterflies and all our friends have butterflies. I think it's important to think about why people keep trying to give girls butterflies. Yes, butterflies are fascinating and beautiful, but more importantly they are fragile, ephemeral and decorative.

Queenofthedrivensnow · 31/08/2018 15:01

I like the butterflies etc so so my dds. When I was little only a few items would have featured them and my parents would have banned them for being gendered. Which was shit.

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 31/08/2018 15:10

demand is created by supply
Yes, this is absolutely true. Shoppers are in one sense a captive audience.

AnxiousPeg · 31/08/2018 15:22

Lookingforadvice123

But can't you see that your complaint that all the boys' prints are limited to vehicles and dinosaurs is part of the exact same issue ?

Charmatt · 31/08/2018 15:38

I've bought mine from Sainsbury's and the uniform I've bought doesn't have hearts or butterflies on any of it. I got blouses, skirts and tights (cardigan is bought through school).

CityFarmer · 31/08/2018 17:03

Yanbu

AndYetItMoves · 31/08/2018 17:10

I bought "girl" trousers from Lidl and they are excellent. Pockets, loose fit, sturdy fabric. We'll see how she gets on this year but DD likes them.

My younger DD is wearing "boy" shoes for school - she had a look at all the styles on offer and went straight for the boys' section. She adores them.

Children are all straight up and down until year 6 or so, anyway. There shouldn't be gendered uniform, there's no need for it.

littlecabbage · 31/08/2018 17:19

For all those who "can't be bothered to care" - it's not just about the shape of a zip. It's about the constant subtle messages that girls should be interested in pretty, decorative things, because that is what they themselves should be. And boys should be interested in strong, active, scientific things because that is their future.

Research has proven this to be damaging on both sides - girls grow up with lower self esteem about their potential achievements than boys, and boys grow up less able to talk about their emotions, and therefore more vulnerable to suicide.

Some MNers will provide anecdotal "evidence" about their confident, sporty DDs or their sensitive, gentle DSs, but the real evidence shows the overall bias explained in the previous paragraph.

We MUST speak up to manufacturers by (a) complaining (remember the outrage at Clark's "Dolly Babe" and "Leader" shoes for girls and boys? They were removed from sale), and
(b) not buying these ridiculously gender-biased products.

PhilomenaButterfly · 31/08/2018 17:25

Not only can I not be bothered to care, neither can DD. It's her opinion on her clothes that matters, as she's nearly 11.

M3lon · 31/08/2018 17:38

Wouldn't it be great if school uniform didn't contain elements in it that were considered beneath the dignity of one gender to wear?

Ideally, skirts and dresses would only form part of the uniform when boys were as likely to wear them as girls.

Until we hit that point I don't think skirts and dresses should be a part of school uniform.

Lostinlondon999 · 31/08/2018 17:38

There’s a huge selection of uniforms to choose from. Ones without any butterflies or hearts. I hate them, my daughter loves them. Just buy a plain one.

littlecabbage · 31/08/2018 17:40

Not only can I not be bothered to care, neither can DD. It's her opinion on her clothes that matters, as she's nearly 11.

But her opinion will have been shaped by 11 years of unconscious gender stereotyping. It's a shame you don't care about this when it is proven to have a detrimental effect on her life chances.

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