Why does my daughter have to have butterfly or heart zipper pulls on her school uniform?

[MsMotherOfDragons]

Just that, really.

Why do the school uniform options for girls not have things like rocket or dinosaur charms? And why don't they have pockets?!! It drives me wild.

I've looked at several of the main supermarkets and they all seem to have the same problem. Eventually I went for the Sainsbury's ones on the basis of price and quality, so we're stuck with butterflies on everything.

Can I replace them with something else... does anyone know where to get rocket charms or similar? Can anyone recommend a better supplier? I'm kind of appalled that all the gender nonsense starts so early. It's so unnecessary.

YANBU! I find the supermarket uniforms tacky with these sorts of details! I love M&S uniform, traditional, simple, non-fussy and such nice quality I can pass it down from my eldest DD to my youngest.

Can't stand the Girl's school uniforms, notice how the size of the polo shirts with frills on are smaller for some reason then the plain ones. I always got DD the plain one's, she also has a younger brother so I want to be able to pass them on. She was never that keen on the frilly ones anyway.

children have enough to learn and cope with, they don't need this added pressure

What pressure?!

Pressure is putting expectations on them based on their sex. They don't need that.

It's also extra pressure to expect girls and boys to push against the marketing; sure- you can get your daughter a "boys'" shirt/pair of shoes, but not all kids have the confidence to go against what's deemed the norm. It's asking a lot of them. They are often railroaded into the gendered crap due to peer pressure/lack of confidence.

Bit late to the party, but had a similar issue over the summer trying to buy shorts for my girls. All the girls' shorts were stopping just under the buttock, whereas the boys shorts were sensible mid thigh or knee length . I ended up buying boys shorts so that my girls would be able to carry on climbing trees etc... without scratching their legs up. I ended up wondering around the girls' section of each clothing shop swearing under my breath at each cutesy teeny tiny pair of shorts and thinking that whoever designed them did not have girls playing in mind.

YANBU

When my dd was little she refused to wear plain polo shirts as they were boys. i had to buy the ‘girls’’ frilly ones until secondary.

Or is it us that makes the association with butterflies being girly?
That said I bought a gorgeous swimsuit recently for my daughter. Navy blue with rockets and planets. She loves it. Was from Boden.

It's not so much that butterflies are "girly" but that they're prized for beauty, which in turn has been deemed feminine quality.

Similarly, hearts are associated with love, and society has deemed that being loving/nurturing/obsessed with romance is a feminine "must-have"

wallyfeatures You have to wonder what they do have in mind when they make little girls clothes skimpy or unecessarily revealing

I find the supermarket uniforms tacky with these sorts of details! I love M&S uniform, traditional, simple, non-fussy...

The girls uniform from M&S with zips all have flower/heart/butterfly zip pulls.

I wonder if these charms are strong enough to be repurposed as zip pulls?
m.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-SPACE-THEME-CHARM-BRACELETS-ASTRONAUTS-ROCKET-PLANET-PARTY-BAG-GIFTS/322164803827?hash=item4b0284c8f3:g:YzwAAOSw5cNYFx60

"Souodragon" I know they do, they have a lovely traditional pinafore that fastens with 4 buttons over the chest, it looks so lovely on!!!! I have bought the exact same drsss for years now!

soupdragon that was meant to say!

I'm assuming it's a pinafore dress, because the zip doesn't show in a skirt (or trousers, hence why boys don't have fancy zip pulls) and if you're SO bothered by gendered zips, why would you put your daughter in a pinafore??? Or a skirt for that matter. Just put her in trousers like the boys. Or if you have boys, dress them in the pinafores as well, because I'm sure being brought up by such a forward thinking, equality aware mother, they'll love hearts etc as much as dinosaurs and will embrace wearing a skirt!

I would get boys uniform, there isen't a law saying girls cannot wear boys uniform. Clothes designed for boys, seem to be more comfy and practical.

There are plenty of reasonable suggestions on here - it's certainly worth considering buying boys' clothes if they're plainer/more practical.

But OP is not unreasonable to question the overwhelming prevalence of hearts/flowers/cupcakes on things marketed at girls. And, on the flip side, all the active/dynamic stuff aimed at boys.

I don't understand the need to pretend this isn't a thing.

My girls actually love all the flowery stuff. This is ok! There's no reason why the pink sparkly stuff us bad. It should just be part of a decent, reasonably wide range of stuff available for girls. As OP has pointed out, it's actually hard to find stuff with dinosaurs etc for girls. So girls who do want this stuff are left feeling somehow 'niche'. I mean, we all know kids generally like to conform (peer pressure and all that).

It is damaging to limit kids' horizons at such a young age, based on nothing more than their sex.

Just because this is a relatively minor issue doesn't mean it isn't part of a much bigger, more unpleasant, picture. Of course it is!

I think this is a non issue. I also don’t identity a heart (which regardless of gender we all have) or a butterfly (which is just a creature after all) as solely female things. I think people attach the meaning to symbols. A heart symbol could just as easily prompt a discussion about the structure of the organ and Medicine as it does the romantic idea of love. Also, romantic love is not a solely female experience or
ideal anyway. Butterflies could be viewed scientifically too or talked about in terms of their spiritual significance. I’ve never actually seen a “pretty” butterfly except the dead ones in a butterfly house...which had more males visiting it than females coincidentally.

I also fail to see how having a heart or a butterfly on the zip makes a uniform any less functional to be perfectly honest.

IME there are plenty of non-detailed,
very plain uniform options out there,
even just in supermarkets like Tesco. In the grand scheme of things, having these really quite innocent symbols on clothing isn’t anything to be concerned about.

I’m more concerned about T-Shirts etc that I see everywhere on little girls and grown women that say “The Future is Female”. I wonder about the effect this has on young boys. It suggests there is no role for them in the future. We don’t gain equality and respect by becoming misandrists.

Also...

If these things are so symbolic and encourage certain traits/affect the psyche etc,

Why do I never hear anyone complaining that there is no clothing available for boys with hearts, flowers or cupcakes on?

But can you see that meanings have been attributed to the butterflies, hearts etc? Each individual isn't bringing a new, completely isolated interpretation to the image!

You need to look at the big picture. Taken together, what are the overwhelming messages in marketing towards girls? Prettiness, sweetness, love, fairies etc. And towards boys? Action, success, leadership, movement etc.

Those are very different messages. (And it's very obtuse to claim that the heart motif is promoting science!!!)

As to why people rarely complain they can't get the flowery stuff for their boys... Can't you think why?? All tge traditional male emblems are regarded as superior- powerful, dynamic, purposeful and interesting.

Obviously all these are generalisations. They are generally true of our society.

My dd had a mixture of sparkly unicorns and sharks/dinosaurs, she just chose what she liked without giving any mind to who it was aimed at.
But actually as I’m typing this I remember that at the time (she’s 16 now) the clothes weren’t as overtly pushed towards either sex in the way they are now.
They were clustered together with the blues/khakis/blacks, etc, which then segued without any signage into the pinks/purples/yellows, etc.
Is it the practically neon signs telling you which sex are “supposed” to wear each colour that makes the difference, maybe?

My younger kids are boys who wouldn’t be seen dead in any of her obviously girly castoffs, without any influencing whatsoever from me, so... Maybe it can be inate?

I’d be interested to know the ages of the posters. Many mothers have said that their children enjoy wearing both. Does that not show that these stereotypes are changing.
My daughter loves glitter pink etc, the same way she loves dinosaurs, trains etc.
At the end of the day equality is important but so are their differences. A girl is a girl and a boy is a boy, naturally programmed differently.

I didn’t claim that a heart motif is promoting science, only that, should a parent choose it could just as easily prompt a discussion about science, the role and function of the heart etc.

I believe I am looking at the big picture. I genuinely don’t see these particular symbols as problematic. Nor do I see, for example, what’s so encouraging and positive about having a dinosaur or a truck on certain clothing. I don’t see how that is promoting leadership! And actually I have recently seen dinosaurs and planes etc on girls clothing in supermarkets.

I will take the teeny tiny shorts for girls thing as a problem. I do think that’s extremely frustrating.

However, I absolutely do not see these other motifs as a problem. I see other people’s attitudes towards the symbolism as a problem. If a parent does their job well and encourages all of their children to have critical and analytical thinking skills from a young age then they’ll be less likely to have a hive mind mentality. I never felt as a female that there was anything I couldn’t do when I was older. I was encouraged to develop leadership skills and strength of character. All whilst choosing “pretty” dresses and everything that was pink coloured with fairies on for myself. It’s never held me back academically or in my career. I never thought “my tshirt tells me I must be a good and pretty little girl who bakes cakes and loves everyone and to read a book or climb a tree would be very bad and I mustn’t do that.. In fact, I think that kind of mentality is quite insulting to young minds. We must give them more credit than reducing them to “I wear these clothes, therefore I must be x”.

I will take the teeny tiny shorts for girls thing as a problem. I do think that’s extremely frustrating

That really bugged me this summer. DD complained she couldn’t play properly because girl's shorts are to short and restrictive. So she spent the summer cutting about in boys shorts.

Girls and too. My brain hasn’t woken up yet.