To think the n word needs to be completely banned

[LardLizard]

Rodrigo removed from the B.B. house

I think the meaning of the word has a different meaning in these current times

I personally hate the term and thinknit should be totally banned

But can see why it’s confussing for younger people with it in so many pop songs

compared to a man saying to a woman “why are you so angry, are you on your period?!”
It's all about context though. In this ^^ example it's assumed that because a man is saying it that's it's meant as a put down (and more often than not it is to an extent because it's now seen as a traditional 'lads' joke). But change the context to it being a woman who's inexplicably angry and a man who's genuinely concerned and all of a sudden you've got someone who's asking if it's hormones that are making them feel angry or if it's actually something else that they can help with like a crap day at work.
Banning words or saying that you can only use them in any context IF you happen to be in the group that the term has been used to put down is wrong. It's not going to teach anyone anything. Some people will insist on using the words more just because they think it's clever (like here when someone says they don't like swearing so a really clever poster has to come along and do a post full of swearwords). Far better surely to point out the background to it and re-educate, lead by example?

I dunno, at school all of my friends were black. We often used it just to address each other or casually.
I don’t think anyone would’ve been offended unless it was said in a derogatory way. However I know our parents would have if a white person said it. I believe Younger generations are reclaiming it, older generations see it as disrespect. You can’t ban a word but if it’s said in a derogatory way then it’s obvioisly hate speech. I think rodrigo said it as in he found black people attractive, it’s hard to see it as a racist act when said in a non offensive context.

“Children today don’t understand this and when they listen to music with everyone other word being that they think it’s an ok word to use. If they’re white they still think it’s ok because they don’t realise they have the privilege of being born white IMO. If that makes any sense... “

That’s just excusing their ignorance. I’m white and 30 so youngish enough to have grown up with rap culture and to have bopped about in many a field at festivals to rap sets. When someone like Jay Z says the N word - I don’t repeat it! I know not to do that. My friends know not to do that. We understand the context. It’s not ok to dismiss it away by claiming that young white people are just not aware of their privilege - they bloody should be - many are! It’s definitely about education and discussion. The posters claiming the white and black people should be able to use the word to make to make it ‘fair’ are ignorant. I don’t like the word. I don’t like hearing the word. It makes me uncomfortable but maybe that’s part of the point.

The posters claiming the white and black people should be able to use the word to make to make it ‘fair’ are ignorant.
Have many people actually been saying that?

I don't like the word. If BAME Groups wish to reclaim it then cool. I have zero desire to use it.

But I do think there has to be some awareness with media and music.
It isn't on if people can be shot down for singing along with an artist after the artist invited them to. It isn't on if a group of children are singing a song in school and then 1 out the group gets a behaviour report for racism.
That's not saying white people should be allowed to use the n word willy nilly, but if people are going to put it in songs then it's asking to be sung along to and I don't think you can say 'ah actually, if you sing along that's ok, but if you do then it's racist'. Take the n word out of songs unless you're happy for people to sing along

Hi all

We're receiving a high level of reports about this thread and we've had to remove quite a lot of posts for breaking our talk guidelines. If it continues in this way, we won't have much choice but to take it down.

As ever, if something doesn't look right, please hit the report button.

MNHQ:

I am staggered to see my posts have been deleted for the use of that word in the context in which I used it. It is a word in the English language. I used it, not in the context of abuse of a person of colour, but in explaining a scenario in which I have used that word to explore what racism is.

Please reconsider your policy on this. I was not being racist.

It’s the argument that if they can use the n word, then we should be able to too, that I find ignorant. Tit for tat. It’s a refusal to truely understand why the word means something different coming out of a black or white mouth.

Posters taking liberties writing the 'n' word out in full I take it?

Good, it needs deleting.

Loulabelle25
I agree that the tit for tat arguments aren't ok.
I wasn't sure if my caution on issues with music was being included in that because I'm absolutely not of the view 'if they can use it so can we view'. I just think that repeating song lyrics is in a separate category and should be viewed differently (If artists don't want the n word repeating then they shouldn't put it in their songs In my opinion. They're public figures. They've created a product for consumption. You can't then say 'actually you've bought my album but it's racist if you sing').

ArmySal

It isn't a "liberty". The word isn't banned!

I teach English Literature. My students read texts that feature that word. They have to quote that word in academic essays. Do you expect them to use asterisks?

I'm not talking about English literature, Pengggwn, this is a chat forum and it is an offensive word, no need to write it out in full.

ArmySal

There are many offensive words. Unless those words are actually banned, there is no reason a person should have to censor themselves when they are not, in fact, using hate speech or being racist. That is ridiculous.

I agree with Maisie,there does need to be more responsibility.

Just to keep in mind. Not all kids have the same upbringing or parents with the same values. Somebody is going to have to teach children who aren't being educated at home that white people saying the word in songs isn't ok. Schools are in quite a tricky situations. A white child singing along saying the word is abhorrent however I do feel for that child if they've grown up in an environment where it wasn't spelt out. Having it permanently on record which is what will happen is yet another disadvantage for a child who may well aready be disadvantaged. It's all very well to smugly say it isn't hard and my kid would never do it however a child who hasn't been educated and is now hearing it in popular culture is at risk of getting in quite a lot of trouble.

So yy to record companies taking a bit of responsibility.

This article always makes me laugh -

Kendrick Lamar Concert

He writes the songs with the N work all over them, gets a fan up on stage to sing the songs HE wrote & then gets hissy when she sings all the words.

What does he think the white kids at school are singing? They don't "self censor" and shouldn't have to. So people like him are actively encouraging a generation to use the word - unless White kids are banned from listening to it??

Also, don't forget - there is a generation out there now who has only heard this word in songs & movies - it doesn't have the same connotations as it does for the generations that saw it used as an insult.

Maybe he needs to have a little think about what he's trying to achieve....

MN has clarified to me that they will delete any posts with that word used. Clearly they have the right to set that expectation on their forum. I, personally, think that's ludicrous, but it isn't my website, so I retract my use of the word insofar as that goes.

You honestly can't defend any white person using that word Pengggwn, written or spoken. It isn't 'just a word', don't be ridiculous.

ArmySal

I certainly can.

Plus, I never said I was white.

You honestly can't defend any white person using that word Pengggwn, written or spoken.

Why on earth not?

Its not difficult to talk to your kids about why the black community reclaimed the word. Or explain how the word was used to oppress historically. I talked to my dd who is 7 about it when she learned about Harriet Tubman at school. Dont want to be a racist? Dont oppress people because of thr colour of their skin, and that includes using that word. Understand how reclaiming ownership of something used to hurt you works.

Why on earth not?

You actually need it spelling out for you why white people should not use the 'n' word?

In principle, I completely agree with the N word being reclaimed by the very people it was used to beat down. And with white people not being able to use it in polite society.

That said, I do think the very nature of telling white teenagers that they have to have the ability to automatically drop that word if they're singing along to a song that contains it actually promotes poor attitudes towards race and equality.

But just to contradict myself again, I think white people having to censor the N word out of the language they use is a really pathetic example of inequality and there are far more important things to tackle, such as the inherent disadvantage that still comes with being born black despite supposedly being a progressive and inclusive society.

It's an extremely complex issue. One which I, as a white person, do not expect to be able to control the narrative of.

ArmySal

Why do you keep saying I am a white person? What exactly has given you that impression ?

Point out where I 'keep' doing that Pengggwn and I'll answer your question.