To a) say he can't use the car and b) take the keys with me?

[Hangraut]

My DS has the use of my car.

It's an old banger which is insured SDP and commuting only.

I usually drop him at work as it's on my way. It's a 5 min drive or a 30 min walk.

His job is partly office based but also involves site visits, up to 15-20 places in a day. Normally he goes out with a colleague in their car.

I am away for the next 3 days. He has just sent me a msg asking if he can use the car for work this week.

I have said no. He's not insured and if he drives it he is in breach of the policy, we risk having our policy voided and not being able to get cover in future.

He said he doesn't see how anyone will know . Although I have said no I don't trust him to do as I say...on that basis WiBU to also take the keys, even though this means he'll be stuck with no car for the rest of the week?

Adding work use type one doesn't usually affect the price of the policy, I have to have it for work, I travel to lots of different locations other than my base office. It's worth a call to your insurer. Your two is of you use it for work eg a van transporting goods etc it goes up. When you say he's not insured, is he not named on your policy or have his own full comp insurance that would cover him? If not that's the issue, not business use.

*type two is if you use it....

He's right no one will know, unless of course he has an accident, then you buggered. It's not worth the risk IMO - others may disagree.

You'd have to add 'business use' the policy as he'll be travelling to more than one 'place of work' in any given day.

For me its simply - take the keys. Let him know that you are doing so, when he asks why, tell him about not trusting him. It may well give him something to think about and maybe he'll start to re-build your trust.

The problem is you said the word ‘No’

Much better to always say yes. “yes of course you can! what you have to do is phone the insurance company to change it and pay the extra cost. Let me know when that’s done or if you need me to be on the phone call”.

And then you act baffled when they say ‘but I don’t want to do it legally’. You just say it has to be done legally.

I avoided a LOT of conflict by always starting with ‘yes’.

He is covered as a named driver on my policy. SDP and commuting only.

He is a young driver so there is likely to be a charge for changing the insurance type if it is even permitted. Any amendment to the policy also attracts an admin fee of £25.

The other issue which I didn't put in my OP is that I don't consider he should be using his own car for work purposes. Travelling to a place of work or several places of work is not the issue; he is travelling to multiple locations (not business premises) to take photos and make notes. He shouldn't be using his own car.

It might be ok him just driving it to work and back, but I wouldn't want him to use it FOR work during the day.
Surely any emplyee who uses their own car gets expenses to do so?

Adding business use cost me nothing when I had to convey people but as he’s only a named driver on your policy, I’d say it’ll cost. Tell him he can have the car if he phones the company to change the policy.

I would ask insurers how much it is to add site visits to the policy.

I do sort of agree with him, how will they know he's not commuting but doing a site visit?

Our car is fitted with a tracker/ black box so insurers can see where it is at any time. I don't think it's worth the risk.

The consequence of being discovered If he is involved in an accident or something, has significantly more risk attached to it than the alternative which is using public transport and taking longer.

I think his employers shouldn't be asking him or any employee to use their own car. I know they are required to pay expenses but doesn't this also affect the tax position too?

Presumably he can continue to go with colleague for the 3 days you're away.

But anyway,, I'd take the keys. And have a serious talk with him about insurance and the consequences of driving illegally. The fact that he's suggested doing it shows he's not mature enough to be trusted with the vehicle while you're away.

I don't think using your own car for work is remotely unusual?

But yeah, if you don't want to change to business use then take the keys.

His employers need to hire one for him if he's making site visits. We have staff who have to risk assess cycle circuits and race routes - they have to either use a pool car, or if one of those isn't available, my employer will hire them a Fiesta.

Can't you just ask the insurer for a price and suggest to your DS that he pays it?

I wouldn't be able to trust him after those comments.

Stick to saying no, and make sure you take the keys away with you.

I think the colleague is off doing something else. DS can go by public transport as it's in London but as it's multiple locations it's less convenient than in the car.

Using your car to commute or to go to another office of your company is covered by the commuting use of policy. Going to multiple locations for work is not covered and doing it means you're in breach of policy conditions.

It's just three days. I'm sure he'll cope without your car.

”I think his employers shouldn't be asking him or any employee to use their own car.”

It’s not always feasible or sensible for employers to provide staff with (taxable) company cars, or to have (and store and maintain) pool cars. For many businesses and roles, paying private mileage rates to employees using their own vehicles is a better option, and it’s perfectly normal and valid.

Absolutely not. My DSis was involved in an accident in the middle of the day and when she called to report it her Insurers were very keen to establish where she’d been and where she was going. Once she confirmed she was on maternity leave they advised that they had to check she wasn’t using the car for work purposes beyond commuting as she wasn’t insured for business use.

Honestly, if he did have an accident I wouldn’t be so confident in his ability to be convincing in his version of events to Insurers and not slip up. Just don’t chance it- if he needs a car for work he should be getting a car allowance.

Tell him he can have the car if he phones the company to change the policy.

And pays any extra costs. Then it's in his hands to sort out. Get confirmation in writing from the insurance company. Otherwise take the keys.

They are all separate issues.

How you ‘think’ the company ‘should’ work, isn’t relevant. It’s perfectly legal and lots of companies work that way.

He is right. If he’s going to various locations to take photos, that aren’t even offices, they’d be hard pressed to prove he was using it for work and not visiting/shopping etc if he had an accident.

However, it’s YOUR car and if you don’t want your son to use it, then that’s your choice.

Only you know if you can trust your DS to only use it to commute etc while you’re away. If you still think he shouldn’t use it ‘for’ work & can’t trust him not to, then yes, take the keys.

Personally, IF I felt he was competent to be driving in London, I’d let him use it while I was away, I don’t think they could prove he was using it for work if he had an accident. But it’s your car and your choice.

Got double shunted by TWO uninsured drivers in the same accident. Fuckers got away with it. We had to pay. He's bang, BANG, out of order, to think he's fine to just drive it hoping nothing with happen, not giving a shit about the consequences to other people.

How long has he worked there & managed without a car?

He wouldn't be having it if you weren't going away & his reply sadly doesn't make him sound responsible or trustworthy.

An hour's walk a day is nothing & he'll have manage site visits as usual without the car!

I'd just phone the insurance and ask. they charged me about £2 to add my 17 year old just passed a week DS to my policy for a day and no alteration fee.

What's the harm in asking if you aren't just going to let him use it anyway?

And DS wasn't even already a named driver.

Also don't get why OP won't just ask