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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To a) say he can't use the car and b) take the keys with me?

79 replies

Hangraut · 21/08/2018 15:40

My DS has the use of my car.

It's an old banger which is insured SDP and commuting only.

I usually drop him at work as it's on my way. It's a 5 min drive or a 30 min walk.

His job is partly office based but also involves site visits, up to 15-20 places in a day. Normally he goes out with a colleague in their car.

I am away for the next 3 days. He has just sent me a msg asking if he can use the car for work this week.

I have said no. He's not insured and if he drives it he is in breach of the policy, we risk having our policy voided and not being able to get cover in future.

He said he doesn't see how anyone will know Hmm. Although I have said no I don't trust him to do as I say...on that basis WiBU to also take the keys, even though this means he'll be stuck with no car for the rest of the week?

OP posts:
twiglet · 21/08/2018 16:50

I used to have it in a work contract that I was ensured for business use, my husband is the same it's quite standard to use your vehicle for work purposes if its a requirement of the job. Get him to check his contract as he may need to sort insurance regardless - ours we had to have a policy in our names not be a named person.

Original poster
Hangraut · 21/08/2018 16:51

As I said the car has a tracker. It's very easy for insurers to prove where he was. Young driver claims are always investigated for potential policy breach, normally fronting but also incorrect use.

I cannot afford for us to breach the policy. I don't have the money to afford super expensive policies in future (as once a policy has been voided you have to declare it on any future proposal).

His employers are a large company. They have a number of company vehicles (cars and vans) but DS is below the minimum age to drive them. I think they shouldn't be asking him to drive until he's old enough to use their cars.

The position 're expenses is unclear and I don't want DS to be put in a situation where he is tracking mileage to ensure he doesn't become liable for tax/ NI (which he will if he does over 10000 miles a year - he told me in one day last week his colleague did over 200 miles so if this is to be a regular thing he could end up exceeding that)

OP posts:
Butteredparsn1ps · 21/08/2018 16:53

I have always had to show my employer my insurance cert to show I have adequate cover for business use.

I agree there was no cost to add it to my policy.

Hoozz · 21/08/2018 16:55

Any amendment to the policy also attracts an admin fee of £25
I use Direct line mainly because they don't charge an admin fee. I can pop DS on the policy for a few days and it cost under £5.
I agree, let him have it as long as he pays the extra insurance which won't be much.

Original poster
Hangraut · 21/08/2018 16:56

I don't have any of the details of my policy with me at work so I can't phone now. Plus I know that any change to policy requires an admin fee as a minimum and there's no point in contacting insurers unless DS is willing to pay that, plus whatever other costs there may be.

Traveling was not part of his contract. This only referenced him being able to use work vehicles once he was 21. His role is, by job description, entirely office based.

OP posts:
diddl · 21/08/2018 16:56

"Also don't get why OP won't just ask"

Why doesn't he?

If he can be trusted!

Butteredparsn1ps · 21/08/2018 16:56

The position 're expenses is unclear and I don't want DS to be put in a situation where he is tracking mileage to ensure he doesn't become liable for tax/ NI (which he will if he does over 10000 miles a year - he told me in one day last week his colleague did over 200 miles so if this is to be a regular thing he could end up exceeding that)

Most employers adjust for this. They pay a higher rate for the first 10,000 miles and then a lower rate. From what you have said it sounds fairly unlikely that your DS will be anywhere near that ceiling.

It is very very normal to do business miles and so long as you update the insurance cover there is nothing dodgy about it.

Original poster
Hangraut · 21/08/2018 16:57

Direct Line wouldn't quote us due to DS age.

OP posts:
TooTrueToBeGood · 21/08/2018 16:59

It's your car so you don't need to argue with him, no means no.

I've always been a stickler for sticking well within the letter of the policy. My logic is the bigger the claim the more likely the insurers are to dig. It may seem to him that they'd never know and for a bumper skiff they probably couldn't care less. The level of scrutiny they'd apply for a claim involving serious injury/death potentially running into 100s of 1000s would be quite different and it wouldn't take them long to determine he was using it for business purposes if they decided to check.

amicissimma · 21/08/2018 17:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WaxOnFeckOff · 21/08/2018 17:11

I'm with Direct Line too. DS wasn't a named driver, I asked to add him for the day to my car (so we could fit a black box to the car he was going to use) so he could use it to get to school. Cost £2 and no admin fee.

Hadalifeonce · 21/08/2018 17:13

When a colleague was asked to use her own car to travel to other sites, the company paid the additional insurance and the mileage. Is that a possibility?

Hoozz · 21/08/2018 17:16

Direct Line wouldn't quote us due to DS age Both of my DC went on my Direct Line policy aged 17. In fact I chose them because they were cheapest when DC1 started driving.
Have you asked your son to pay?

Why doesn't he? An insurance company won't speak to a 3rd party about someone else's policy.

WhatWouldTheDoctorDo · 21/08/2018 17:21

In my company, you must have business use on your own vehicle if you use it for business purposes. It could be a disciplinary offence if you were involved in an incident and didn't have it.

Original poster
Hangraut · 21/08/2018 17:24

Obviously insurers apply different criteria according to risk. Locally no one I know could get a quote from DL/ Churchill etc for a teenager. That includes any kind of temp cover. It is £10 a day to add me to my partners DL car insurance as I have been driving for less than 5 years.

I work closely with motor insurers in my job and know a lot about fraud investigations etc hence why I am cautious.

And yes DS can't discuss the policy without my authorisation which I'm not at home to provide.

OP posts:
diddl · 21/08/2018 17:26

"Why doesn't he? An insurance company won't speak to a 3rd party about someone else's policy."

Yes of course!Blush

I had got myself into the mindset of-why is everyone telling Op to do it when someone else wants & will benefit?!

Original poster
Hangraut · 21/08/2018 17:27

We are expressly not allowed to use our own vehicles even to travel to other offices, we are expected to travel by train or plane.

I agree a prudent employer would require proof of full insurance. Apparently they haven't. Im also not sure what arrangements they will make to pay mileage as the contract makes no provision for using your own car so is silent on mileage costs and payment.

OP posts:
RedneckStumpy · 21/08/2018 17:28

I would leave the keys, tell him he can’t use it, but I would remove the ignition fuse so it can’t be started.

WaxOnFeckOff · 21/08/2018 17:32

I couldn't do an on-line quote for cover for DS with DL either for his own insurance or as a named driver on mine, but they were perfectly fine when i called to ask about adding him for a day. and she offered to do a quote for him for full insurance which I did out of curiosity but it was really really expensive. He was 17 and had only passed his test the week before. This was just in April so not ages ago or anything. Maybe it depends on the car or where you live (as do most things with insurance). i was honestly expecting it to be expensive and for there to be a fee so I was pleasantly surprised. It cost less than his bus fare (if there was a suitable bus).

flowery · 21/08/2018 17:46

All this about whether travelling should be specified in his contract, what mileage rate they will pay him, how you think they should run their business etc etc is surely irrelevant. Either you trust him to drive your car or you don’t, IMO. If you trust him enough to let him drive your car for non-work purposes, why would it be a problem to let him drive for work (and probably more responsibly compared to if he’s taking mates out) for a few days, subject of course to him paying any additional insurance costs.

And if you don’t trust him to the extent you need to take the keys away, surely you don’t trust him enough to give him the privilege of using your car?

Lynne1Cat · 21/08/2018 17:53

Can't he simply be added as an extra driver to your policy?

RabbitsAreTasty · 21/08/2018 17:54

Has he told his employers he doesn't have a car? Has he asked his boss for advice on what to do?

In any case, you've said no, so take the keys, he'll never know or complain because he won't attempt to drive it because you said no, of course.Wink

Pippylou · 21/08/2018 17:56

Nah, in the course of my volunteering, I came across a situation where the parent had lent the car to the kid, big accident, other party sued as there were significant injuries. As they weren't insured, the parents were sued directly and the claim was in the many tens of thousands...I don't take any chances with insurers now. Particularly in London, where a driver could be tracked on camera and it wouldn't take a genius to put a day's travel together with work.

YeTalkShiteHen · 21/08/2018 17:57

I’m with you OP, breaching an insurance policy is a really big risk. DP had to add work insurance for our pick up and it did rise, significantly but I’m not sure if that’s because his pick up classes as a commercial vehicle, or if it’s because it’s used mostly for work.

Either way, it’s your car and your policy so you’re the boss!

Original poster
Hangraut · 21/08/2018 18:07

It's nothing to do with trusting him to drive the car. I trust him to drive with his friends because he's insured. I know that if he has an accident, even if it's his fault, we have a valid policy and he'll be covered. I am aware of claims where even in a non fault situation ie other driver was to blame, if a breach of policy conditions came to light the insurers could void the policy of the non fault driver causing them significant future problems. I can't take the risk of him driving uninsured.

As for the contract etc, I can't speak for other people but I certainly wouldn't drive anywhere for my employers unless I had something specific in writing as part of my contract or a variation thereof which said how I would be reimbursed and what the expectation was in terms of travel. If I had a new car I certainly wouldn't be happy about piling 1000s of work miles on my car and the resultant diminution in it's value. Obviously not such an issue here but still DS should have something in writing about his expenses, how else does he ensure he's reimbursed?!

He says he will go by public transport although he isn't sure this will be allowed as he can't cover everything in 1 day by bus/tube/ train.

OP posts: