Rise of measles

[crosstalk]

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/european-measles-death-toll-hits-37-after-antivax-campaigns-ztmwl9f3q

Just saying

I think here there is just a consensus. Not manipulated. Just not ill - informed anti vaccine nonsense.

There is a consensus, an educated consensus that knows that vaccinating our children ( unless medically advised not to) is the safest, most sensible option. Not just on an individual level but a societal level too.

Infectious illness is very much down to the susceptibility of the individual. This susceptibility depends on the nutrionsl status, underlying health, societal/economic factors, as well as emotional and physical stressors

Complications will then arise due to the presence of underlying chronic health conditions and also due the way the current and previous diseases have been managed.

Diseases like measles are more a symptom of ill health than a cause of it. If measles is managed incorrectly and the symptoms are suppressed then this will also lead to a prolonged weakened immune system as a result

And no, I’m not expecting most people to grasp this, but there will be people lurking for whom this resonates.

have you heard of astroturfing? It’s when a perceived consensus is manipulated so that people think the ‘general consensus’ is a certain way when it isn’t. I think that is what is being done on these threads

No, there really is a very strong consensus. Vaccinate. Ask any doctor, or any sensible parent.

@Cathmidston
How much was paid in compensation for adverse reactions to other drugs? Paracetamol or antibiotics for example? Do you not let your children have any medications?

I don't think the US is a good indicator of drug safety. The advertise on TV for anyone who thinks they may have a side effect caused by a particular drug.

I had a relatively minor procedure on my spine two years ago. Risk of permanent nerve damage was 1 in 10,000. It happened to me. Did I complain or sue? No. It was a known, rare complication. I'm still glad that we tried and I would not try and stop anyone else from having it done because for the thousands of people that it does work for it works really well.

Nothing is without risk. It's about balancing those risks and putting them into perspective. Ironically, the risks of unvaccinated children contracting these illnesses has been quite low because the rest of us do vaccinate, so the anti vaxxers actually ARE benefitting from vaccination.

@cathmidson and your medical degree is from where??

And no, I’m not expecting most people to grasp this, but there will be people lurking for whom this resonates.

Let’s hope not, because it’s baseless fiction and it would be a pity for anyone to make choices about their own or their children’s health on the basis of someone making things up on the internet.

Crazy anti-vaxxer alert! Don't engage.

I'd suggest the manipulation isn't happening amongst the vaxxers tbh. Whenever i speak to people in person about vaccinations, inevitably the non-vaxxers have picked up some ridiculous notion & run with it as a reason for not vaccinating

Diseases like measles are more a symptom of ill health than a cause of it. If measles is managed incorrectly and the symptoms are suppressed then this will also lead to a prolonged weakened immune system as a result

Hi again Cath . Just last week you were posting links to the German Supreme Court ruling definitively that measles does not exist. What has happened?

Thank you Cathmidston for pointing out if you are sick a disease will make you sicker. All of us who believe in preventative medicine were under the impression that measles fairies came and stole the hearing of children.
Do you think that a healthy diet including lots of veg and regular exercise is of benefit to health? Because that’s preventative too.

But why on earth would you risk to your child’s life on them maybe getting an infection when they are definitely healthy and not laid up with something else?

As Churchill said 'there are lies, there are damn lies and then there are statists'

Being an anti-vaxxer requires the ability to misunderstand all data and make up your own statistics. Also, lacking the ability to read and understand simple ideas.

As has already been demonstrated to us on this thread.

Disclosing, let's assume for a moment that your logic is sound and rubella does not post any danger to babies.

You do realise that non-immunised people act like a petri dish for viruses, allowing them to mutate and become resistant to the vaccination that previously eradicated them?

Anyone who isn't afraid of measles hasn't seen an actual case of measles.

If these anti-vaxers had exprienced any of these awful illnesses as a child they would not run the risks of their DC's suffering.

I am most definitely NOT against vaccines and I have had my DS vaccinated. However, these are not helpful statements because measles more often than not has no lasting effects. Otherwise the human race would not be what it is! I'm just saying that in the debate we ought at least to be factually correct.

disclosingshite, you are putting your DCs at risk of delayed medical treatment.

I recently discovered that my health Trust requires you to phone ahead if you suspect M, M or R and the child is unvaccinated. If you turn up your child will be quarantined and treatment delayed because they cannot put other patients and staff at risk.

Twitterati

I wasn't just talking about the lasting effects, I was talking about how serious an illness measles is, even if you don't have a complication. It is agony.

Lack of contact with extreme illness like this makes people blasé about it. Perhaps why some people are more scared if the vaccine than the disease.

MissSusanSays I’ve had measles so first hand experience thanks

Could probably Google this, but can someone please tell me what the rationale was for discontinuing the separate vaccines, which people were quite happy to use? People are resisting the combined vaccine (MMR) but as far as I know, there was no such resistance to the separate measles, mumps and rubella vaccinations when they were available. This vaccination avoidance could all be avoided if the separate vaccinations were still available to those who would prefer to use them for whatever reason, such as wanting to avoid overloading the immune system with a 3-in-1 by spreading them out. I find this genuinely puzzling, as I know there are multiple options for other vaccinations for some tropical diseases f.i.

As have I.

It was not anything like a cold or the flu. My mum talks about sleeping in my bedroom with me for a week, the terrible fever, how delirious I was.

I wasn't hospitalised but it was awful. She says it was the most ill I ever was. And also had scarlet fever and tonsillitis five times a year until I was seven.

@disclosingshite OK, so what happens if your DD -God forbid- becomes immunocompromised before she is given the Rubella vaccination?

At some time in the future she becomes pregnant and is in contact with a preschooler with a mild dose of German measles whose parents decided not to vaccinate for much of the same reason as you are deciding not to vaccinate your child now.

Your daughter contracts Rubella which then affects the development of her unborn baby, which may include eye problems, deafness, heart abnormalities and brain damage.

Yes, a highly hypothetical situation, but can you not see the potential consequences by not vaccinating now?

Highly hypothetical

Broken, I can’t account for every eventuality. Point is, at this moment in time, being vaccinated for rubella is of no benefit to her, so she won’t have it. That will be reviewed on an as and when basis.

wasn't hospitalised but it was awful. She says it was the most ill I ever was. And also had scarlet fever and tonsillitis five times a year until I was seven.
Well that isn’t normal.. that is the sign of chronic underlying ill health so no wonder your measles symptoms were so bad when you eventually developed it . Can I ask how old you were when you had measles?

Fuck me...

Rather not

O.......M.........G..........this is bizarre to say the least.