Rise of measles

[crosstalk]

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/european-measles-death-toll-hits-37-after-antivax-campaigns-ztmwl9f3q

Just saying

It's normal to have a number of small clusters of cases (the govt publishes numbers of reported notifiable diseases every week).

The problem comes if one of those small clusters gets to over about, say, roughly 30 cases because then it can tip quickly into big outbreak, such as the one in Wales. Where you will suddenly see queues of people for vaccination and hear demand for more sessions.

There is a big problem with those born from about 1996 to the early 2000s. Because before 1997, parents single jab on NHS and the protection offered from that is fine. The licence was allowed to lapse in 97 (admin, not adverse evidence) right at the peak of the concerns about MMR and a few years before all the new evidence that shows the concerns were misplaced. That was, I think a dreadfully timed decision by the government. And yes, there is a cohort, aged about 15-22 where rates of vaccination are quite low.

Why disclosingshite?

"I’ve heard the separate jabs aren’t as effective"

No, that's not really the case if you are looking at the immunity conferred by the measles component. Two doses of any measles-containing vaccine offers protection levels that are essentially indistinguishable, regardless of type of MMR or of single (assuming proper manufacture and storage).

But as there is no currently available mumps vaccine, then singles are less effective as fewer diseases are covered (and you need more jabs and appointments to complete the course).

Miss Susan one of the problems with the 'separate vaccinations' clinics that were set up following the Wakefield bollocks, was that many of the clinics were unregulated. The importation and storage of the vaccines was uncontrolled and the cold-chain necessary to maintain the efficacy of the vaccines was not adhered to. The result of this was that single doses of measles and rubella vaccine was given that were ineffective, and single mumps vaccine was very difficult to source, so most of the 'single dose' children have never been vaccinated against mumps at all. So parents thought their children were protected by the private vaccines they paid dearly for, but they were and still are, not protected because the vaccines were ineffective due to the inadequate storage conditions. This situation improved due to more regulation in the mid 2000's.

Yea this is scary. Dd has only had her 1st lot and we are waiting to hear from the doc how to proceed with the booster as she had an allergic reaction to the last lot (we don’t know it was definitely the MMR though). Really hope there’s no outbreak here.

Despite being fully vaxxed my daughter caught measles 2 weeks ago, a large rise in cases according the Public Health UK manager we were dealing with. No idea where she caught it from so people are wondering around with measles either not realising or not caring

Because my kids don’t need rubella or mumps jabs.

It won't hurt them to have the mumps and rubella vaccine alongside the measles vaccine.

It has hurt some children, however.

Not many, conceded, but I’m still not going to take a tiny risk for them for something that doesn’t benefit them.

I still don't understand why Wakefield hasn't been prosecuted and is still being given a platform in some venues.

IMO if your child isn't vaccinated (unless with a specific medical exemption certificate) you shouldn't be able to access any benefits (inc CB and tax credits), child care, nursery provision or schooling provision.

Here you go, disclosing

samedaydoctor.org/service/babyjabs/

Thanks a lot Grimbles

Whatever your beliefs on single vaccines vs MMR (according to the NHS single vaccines are no safer and have the same side effect risks), private clinics are not licensed so there are no safety or effectiveness checks. So if you're looking to protect your children and do so safely, please do bear this in mind before you decide what the best course of action is.

Yes, but the difference is they are only being vaccinated for what they need to be vaccinated for, hence my enthusiasm for a single vaccine.

It has hurt some children, however.

In what way has it hurt some children? If you're talking about autism, the link between MMR and autism has been thoroughly discredited. If you're talking about vaccine damage, that level of reaction to vaccines is very rare and the risk of complications from the illnesses being vaccinated against is much higher than the risk of vaccine damage.

IMO if your child isn't vaccinated (unless with a specific medical exemption certificate) you shouldn't be able to access any benefits (inc CB and tax credits), child care, nursery provision or schooling provision

Not while a risk exists. When this legislation is repealed www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/17/contents because it is no longer needed, because there are never serious life-altering side effects to vaccinations (as opposed to just feeling a bit "off" for a few days afterwards), I will agree with you.

I still don't understand why Wakefield hasn't been prosecuted and is still being given a platform in some venues

Because the MMR controversy was around before he was - and there was controversy in the 70s about the DTP vaccine too (which is probably where the 1979 legislation I refer to above came from).

Because my kids don’t need rubella or mumps jabs

Well, if female they need a rubella jab and if male they need a mumps jab. Even if you don't go with the socially responsible herd immunity argument.

I presume my immunity to measles means I don't have to worry about my baby at the moment? (I'm pregnant). I'm pretty sure I had measles as a kid (I predate the MMR!)

A wee bit concerned as I'm in one of the places where there's an outbreak

Because my kids don’t need rubella or mumps jabs

Why is that? Are they already immune? If so the other vaccines won't make a difference.

MissSusan, Ds2 (now 30) caught measles before he had his second jab,. his was not a severe attack, and I was told this was because he had had his first jab?

Grimbles, yes you should pass on protection but you can always ask your GP if you think you might have been exposed. Good luck for your pregnancy!

I just do not understand parents who do not vaccinate. Personally, I think that if you do not allow your children to be vaccinated, the children should not be allowed in nursery/school to protect the other children and social services should be involved. Any parent willing to allow their child to suffer through some of these illnesses is not a fit parent.

This is obviously not including those who are immune impaired and/or cannot be vaccinated for a reason.

If you don't like MMR then pay for them to be separated, but do not be selfish and leave your child at risk.

They don’t need rubella because they are infants who will not be of childbearing age for over a decade. They don’t need mumps because they are girls.

My mum blamed the MMR jab for my little brothers autism. He was born in 1995, she made me terrified of getting my daughter vaccinated. But I did my own research and went ahead with the vaccination and thank goodness I did. I figure that the NHS doesn’t do anything it doesn’t have to due to costs. So if they feel the MMR is worth it then it’s worth it because if it wasn’t it wouldn’t be offered.

Andrew Wakefield and his ilk have a lot to answer for, even now.

@disclosingshite so you are happy for them to get Rubella and pass it on to unvaccinated pregnant women?

They don’t need rubella because they are infants who will not be of childbearing age for over a decade. They don’t need mumps because they are girls
One of the reasons for rubella vaccination for children is to reduce the likelihood of passing rubella on to pregnant women, either directly or by proxy.

We had a lab. tech whose young teenage daughter had mumps followed by complications that included meningitis (that she survived).

Mumps vaccine for teenagers

And, it's unusual but mumps can lead to ovary complications.