To think that this massive women’s rights issue is going under the radar. (As it’s being hidden from them.)

[Carrrotsandcauliflower]

So AIBU to think that this massive women’s rights issue is going under the radar?
Excuse the length of this post ...A couple of days ago I was wasting time on Facebook. When I had a nose at the Lib Dem local home page in my area. They had a poster photographed in one post. The poster reads as follows; ( I can’t post a picture of the post.)

“WOMEN
Did you know that there are men,
Who have assaulted & raped women housed in U.K. women’s prisons because they claim to be women?
Did you know that groups are going into schools & telling kids they can ‘choose’ wether to be a boy or a girl & that these groups receive children in need and lottery funding??
Did you know that proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act will mean that a man is allowed into women’s spaces (changing rooms, sports teams, swimming sessions) just by declaring himself to be a woman?
Want to know more? CHECK OUT
@Man FRIDAY,@transgenderTrd @womansplaceuk @resisters @lillylilymainard @ sexfenderethics”

So...they have made the point that they think this is not acceptable. Also that is transphobic. They have asked anybody who sees the posters to remove them.
I commented that I didn’t think it was transphobic, because it contained no openly aggressive or hateful rhetoric. I then decided to follow the twitter link thingies and have a read to see what was all the fuss about. Still not finding anything phobic. I went back to the Facebook page and said- I’ve followed the links which (briefly) amongst other things talk about how women are worried about giving away their safe spaces to trans men who may be attracted to women depending on their nature. Like toilets changing rooms etc.
So there followed me being told I must be transphobic. Because I had that worry. That even just wondering about wether it was safe to allow trans men into women’s private spaces was transphobic. I wasn’t happy but I didn’t get abusive. I replied with a link to Jenifer James’s campaign. They hid my comments, and then named me. Then went on to say I was disgusting. Transphobic, and a bigot. Nobody had any idea what I had actually said as it was hidden. Luckily as I was the first to speak I was able to delete my first comment and stop myself being painted as some kind of head case.
A day or so later I decided now that I was feeling a bit freaked out at feeling I’d been shut down harshly to have a look on the feminism forum here. I have posted in the feminism activism area on the feminism forum. I can’t link as it breaks the forum rules. ( I think this is ok though.) go and have a look about a thread mentioning posters popping up around Bromley..

Thank you stealth.

@Pywife2 Its more that I find some of these discussions immensely upsetting and really don't like seeing them when I'm using mumsnet, hence why I've hidden feminism chat where most of them are. If someone really hated, for example, AMA threads, they're allowed to hide them and get a bit cross when people aren't posting in the specific board for them.

Surely the TRAs want to protect vulnerable trans people? and don't want abusive men who do not represent them, to appropriate their identity, for their own sexual and power gain?

The TRAs call vulnerable trans people 'truscum'.

And the TRAs mostly ARE abusive men, appropriating the identity.

Beardy men, calling themselves 'non-binary' and wanting the pronouns 'she' or 'they'. Just because they apparently like 'sparkly wellies'.

This is what it is coming down to.

Women have front holes.
Men who identify as women have the vaginas.
A penis is a weird shaped vagina.

And you are a bigot if you don't agree.

Having read the trans sexual health poster that thumbwitch posted , i'm concerned that it says vagina is what trans woman who have had bottom surgery have had but woman have a front hole , pretty sure it a vagina i pushed my children out of 🤔

I find some of these discussions immensely upsetting

What do you find upsetting? That the very word women is being erased?

@stealthsquirrelnutkin thank you for your post.

It seems this is another way for males to push out born women and squash our rights. It’s really disturbing. Why don’t female born women count?!

A woman's 'front hole' is her urethra, not her vagina. I'd say someone needs to teach to teach the LibDem/TRA activists some basic biology but, y'know, that's the obvious problem.

A woman's 'front hole' is her urethra, not her vagina.

Shhh - don't tell 'em Pike. Lol.

@stealthsquirelnutkin
Thank you so much for your well written and illuminating post on this issue.

@stealthsquirrelnutkin, a very interesting and informative post, thank you.

Our politicians say publicly that “biology is outdated”.

Female politicians, at that.

Biology is outdated.

Every woman knows that’s not true. Trans women know it’s not true as much as any other woman does.

But laws are going to change on this basis - that “biology is outdated”.

Tell your friends! No need to worry about your female plumbing or reproductive issues or systemic inequality that follows - everyday sexism, pay gaps. Biology is outdated. It’s a brave new world.

I worry that I, as a rape victim, can't necessarily be sure that there will be no penises in the public toilets, ladies' changing rooms etc. I don't feel safe. If I saw a male person in there I would leave, and would advise my DD to do the same - am I a bigot because I can't get over it?

I find the idea highly disturbing, that assessments are not done as a matter of course on existing service users. That no thought is given to natal females who may not be comfortable with people with penises in their formerly sex-segregated spaces, whether because of reasons of culture/ethnic/religious concerns, former abuse & trauma, or because they simply feel unsafe. If councils are not required to do this as standard, what hope is there for private companies?

I worry that there will soon be - indeed increasingly there is - no way for adult human females to identify themselves as distinct from any other specific group. And why sex and gender are routinely conflated. And why statistics cannot, and will not, be able to be reliably sorted by sex any more, as increasingly gender is used instead of sex on forms, questionnaires etc. If we cannot even describe a woman, or a person's sex, how do we describe or fight sexism?

If we cannot even describe a woman, or a person's sex, how do we describe or fight sexism

It won't exist as it only takes some men to self ID on paperwork the once, for them to show that they are not treating men and women differently, look at the stats.

I have always considered myself quite liberal minded, so was reluctant to not support the ‘trans’ cause over this - I am quite ignorant on the subject and nobody I know in real life is even discussing the self ID debate! But since joining MN and discovering the feminism board I feel like my eyes have been opened and I grow increasingly alarmed. I am pretty ignorant still, and have no idea about how laws are passed, but is there any where as a group we could object to this proposed change, and I could share with others to raise their awareness? I’m guessing I could write to my MP, but if quite a number of us feel this way surely there is more strength in that.

Also agree with everyone else, @squirrel’s post was bang on.

I think it is really important for Mumsnet and mumsnet users to be mindful of the fact that women (and men) may be coming to this issue for the first time and bringing their concerns to mumsnet.

Therefore they will express their concerns in whatever part of mumsnet they first alight upon. They are not aware of the backstory around forum guidelines, or that it should 'belong' in the feminism area. For what it is worth, this issue affects all women whether they define themselves as feminist or not.

If the Trans activists are concerned by the language and descriptions of generally politically-sensitive feminist mumsnetters, who are a fairly 'right on' bunch, then they are going to have the vapours when the average woman expresses herself on this issue - thinking of the many straight-talking, strong and don't-give-a-shit women I have met in my life!

Completely agree with squirrel's excellent post. I'm a liberal thinking, left wing heterosexual woman who has only very recently begun to think of myself as any kind of a feminist. I thank Mumsnet for that and have not even yet ventured over the feminist boards, just read some very eloquently and well reasoned posts on aibu that have made me stop and think, question the status quo. I had no idea about any of this and likewise prided myself on embracing difference and having a live and let live approach to life and people. Women must be allowed to publically discuss any and all issues that directly affect them without fear of dismissal and intimidation, or accusations of bigotry. It is not hateful to have a reasoned and well informed debate and I too find it incredibly scary that this kind of open discussion is being smothered by two of the main political parties I identify most closely with.

I have seen tweets from a labour party women's officer, aged twenty and retaining male genitals - that they want to become pregnant and breastfeed.

Due to porn consumption many men now want anal sex and get aroused via a few props.

The end game is to replace natal women, simply use us as egg and uterus donators.

Under his eye.

@YouMustNotTellLies that's terrifying.

Female maternity leave will cease because males can get pregnant too.

Female IVF funding will be split between females and males because males are women too. Egg sharing schemes and uterus transplant research has already got TRAs pushing their agenda.

They can create mostly male babies. Just create the odd female for egg donation purposes.

Under his eye.

Also what's with Olympic champions pushing this? One transgender, the other pushing out truth of parentage, male baby sex selection and removal of mother as the norm.

We are entering the fourth industrial revolution according to the Bank of England, there will be few jobs available, so a population decrease is needed.

From 2010 life expectancy has gone down according to a "shit life" report in the Guardian.

Sex robots, porn and Transwomen will be made available to males.

Under his eye.

The lib dems have been on the trans express fir a long time, not surprising given their history of homophobia and rather hard-core Christian element.

Hazandduck and anyone else new to this, you can sign the petition on women’s rights (and read the Government response so far) here:

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

You can write to your MP, but the most important thing you might like to do is look and the consultation on changes proposed to the GRC process (self-ID of gender being one thing explored) and decide if you’d like to fill it in:

www.gov.uk/government/consultations/reform-of-the-gender-recognition-act-2004