I don't agree this is victim blaming

[TeeJay1970]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-45232993

I know what victim blaming is so there is no need to define it for me.

Surely this is just good advice?

The police have had to apologise for encouraging

"friends to look after each other on a night out to prevent someone becoming vulnerable or separated from the group"

Isn't that what good friends do?

Rufustheyawningreindeer I suspect you’re right!

nannyCrumb so you haven’t read the stories about that exact case saying he wasn’t ready for another child, that she’d tricked him into it, that she spent too much money and pushed him to breaking point no? Or are you just so used to it that you don’t notice it any more?

So you see, your inability to read what’s written in black and white isn’t my fault.

"Again, many on this board are arguing about a straw man"

I see that straw man, and I raise the straw men that rapists are violent men down dark alleys and not our own sons on nights out

You cannot rule it out entirely as sometimes it goes to the facts of a case

The only time I could think of that it would be relevant is if there is a history of repeated unfounded rape allegations.

It doesn’t matter if a woman has sex with 20 men in a day, if she says no to the 21st and he doesn’t stop, it’s rape.

As for it coming from the police, how is it different from them telling you that there has been burglaries in the neighborhood so make sure your doors are locked and install an alarm system? Or is that something that the police shouldn’t advise?

This. It's precautionary surely? Like carrying a rape alarm. Do you not carry one on the basis that men shouldn't be raping you in the first place...or do you carry one as a precaution in case you are targeted by a rapist? Of course men shouldn't rape women but until they stop doing it what the hell is wrong with advising women to protect themselves?

@YeTalkShiteHen

"so you haven’t read the stories about that exact case saying he wasn’t ready for another child, that she’d tricked him into it, that she spent too much money and pushed him to breaking point no? "

I haven't. Where are they? Are you going to tell me to do my own research? I've tried. Why not help me out?

"if she says no to the 21st and he doesn’t stop, it’s rape."

But this isn't what's being judged. It's more 'if she had sex with 20 men then is she likely to have said stop to the 21st. Consent is what's usually questioned in court. Whether there was sex is rarely disputed.

It's not victim blaming to say people should aim to keep themselves safe.

If I had an option of 2 routes through a city, one well lit with people and one down quiet back alleys and poorly lit then I'd take the lighter with more people. I would never deserve to be mugged, the crime is the responsibility of the criminal at all time. However it would be silly of me to take th back alley route home alone on the grounds that 'It's my right to walk where I like'. I wouldn't risk my safety.

Same for nights out. A woman is never responsible for a rapist attacking her. Ever. But if there's a way I can try to keep myself and my friends safer then I'll take that. I'd rather not place myself at a higher risk of attack just so I can say 'but it's my right to walk home alone when drunk'. The trauma of an attack wouldn't be worth feeling like I'd won some philosophical argument of who is right.

But this isn't what's being judged. It's more 'if she had sex with 20 men then is she likely to have said stop to the 21st. Consent is what's usually questioned in court. Whether there was sex is rarely disputed

And who, precisely, is to say whether consent was likely or not? Someone else deciding whether you consented or not is exactly the problem!

It matters not a jot whether the woman is a virgin, has had one lifelong partner or has had many consensual sexual partners. It has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on whether it was rape or not, and the sooner people get it into their head the better.

My example upthread ties in neatly. My then husband raped me, 3 days after I had our son. Clearly I’d had consensual sex to conceive my child, does that then mean that I was “more likely” to consent when he raped me? Bullshit does it.

And yes, I’m going to tell you to do your own research because otherwise the conclusion I’ve reached is that you can’t be bothered finding out the truth and just want a row, and I haven’t got the time nor the inclination to spoon feed you what is all over the mainstream media.

@YeTalkShiteHen

"And who, precisely, is to say whether consent was likely or not?"

The jury.

Did I understand your question correctly?

"Someone else deciding whether you consented or not is exactly the problem!"

I don't understand this question. You think that trials are a problem?

Posted too soon.

Yes, I suspect that having sex with someone once means that subsequent sex is less likely to be rape.

You talk about me and other posters doing our own research but, strangely, it's to back up your ideas and to refute our own. Very unusual thinking. One could say, well, you're talking shite, hen.

Please give us even a hint of proof or stop making wild statements.

Yes, I suspect that having sex with someone once means that subsequent sex is less likely to be rape.

I may have misunderstood this

Do you mean that in the case of a trial that the jury may think this

Or that its your own personal opinion

Both.

It's my guess (suspicion) as to what the statistics may be.

No idea about juries.

Are you really saying that if somebody has had sex with somebody once, they are less likely to be raped by that person?

Well

Slightly gobsmacked by that

Are you? I am not in the slightest bit surprised.

birds

Only slightly

People never cease to amaze me...and not necessarily in a good way

Yes, I suspect that having sex with someone once means that subsequent sex is less likely to be rape

Then you’re a fucking idiot.

yetalk

Preach it sister

@BertrandRussell

Are you saying that most rapes are committed when the victim has previously consented?

Going to prove me wrong with, you know, facts?

You told another poster that they can't debate and they retorted saying that these threads are never debates, just chasing off opposing opinions. You're proving them right.

@YeTalkShiteHen

I've read all the thread and your bad attitude is noticable. On AIBU that's saying something.

Have you ever heard the expression, contribute or fuck off?

Rufustheyawningreindeer I’m sadly not surprised but genuinely gutted that these ridiculous, and worse than that, harmful myths and beliefs about rape still exist.

Because it means that people still judge women for having sex and that rape is just something we should put up with because we’ve had sex before, what’s one more time?

Or that’s how it feels anyway.

Even someone in my own family said that if my XH had had what he wanted, he wouldn’t have had to take it. The same person questioned why I didn’t report him to the police without a hint of irony.

nannyCrumb my bad attitude? Uh huh.

How about you and my XH get chatty, he’s about your level moral wise. He’s a rapist and you’re an apologist for rapists, you’ll get on grand.

*Do you think she deserved to be raped, tortured, decapitated and then dismembered? Because the press seemed to think she was to blame.

...

He’s a rapist and you’re an apologist for rapists, you’ll get on grand.*

You seem to have a flair for inserting things nobody said.

I repeat, without saying anybody deserves anything or approving of/defending rape myself, we live in a society that despises rape and punishes/stigmatizes rapists.

"Are you saying that most rapes are committed when the victim has previously consented?"

No. I am not saying anything of the sort. I am saying that it is irrelevant whether a woman has previously consented.

I get that peopleshouldbe able to walk wherever they like, in whatever state they like. Leave their houses & cars unlocked. Leave their wallets & phones on the table when they go to the loo. Leave a handbag hanging on the back of the chair when they're on the dance floor.

Youshouldbe able to do all of them but, due to a criminal minority, you take a risk when you do. As a grown up it's your decision to take that risk.

There are some streets in London I wouldn't drive through in a fucking tank, but ifyou'rehappy to use them as a shortcut on your way home pissed & alone, that'syourdecision.

Personally I'd rather take the long way round than be morally right & attacked/robbed/raped.

And yes, the only person who's fault it is is the perpetrator.
This with bells on.
The only person responsible for a rape is the rapist.
That doesn't mean we should willingly put ourselves in more risky situations. It's not a chance I would want to take.

I repeat, without saying anybody deserves anything or approving of/defending rape myself, we live in a society that despises rape and punishes/stigmatizes rapists

I think it’s desperately sad that you think so, but fair enough. I disagree.

@Bertrand

"No. I am not saying anything of the sort. I am saying that it is irrelevant whether a woman has previously consented."

No. That isn't what you said. We weren't talking about relevancy, we were talking about likelihood i.e. statistics and facts.

A very flawed and brief google suggests that in NZ 17 percent of rape victims were raped by current or ex sexual partners. 83% of victims were reaped by someone they hadn't previously consented to sex with.

I'm not a "rape apologist" for commenting on what appear to be trustworthy figures.

@shite

I'm now the same as a rapist because I haven't done the research to prove your point? I see I'm not the only person you label in such a way.

I'm actually typing this kindly, this thread isn't doing you any good. Stop reading it. You're insulting people and twisting their words and not doing yourself any favours.