I don't agree this is victim blaming

[TeeJay1970]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-45232993

I know what victim blaming is so there is no need to define it for me.

Surely this is just good advice?

The police have had to apologise for encouraging

"friends to look after each other on a night out to prevent someone becoming vulnerable or separated from the group"

Isn't that what good friends do?

slarti

You quoted bertram

We live near the sea. I remind every time mine go out

You're obviously more worried that yours have "rapey" tendencies than I am then. You may have trust issues.

Or you're one of those people that go on and on and on......

So bertrand was talking about warning her sons of the danger of the sea while pissed and you seemed to segue into 'rapey'

Hence my confusion

To be fair, I did talk about the sea. Slartibartfast said that she had had all the conversations about consent ages ago and it would be “trite” to mention it again. I said that I warn about the sea every time, and was that “trite” too?

I think Slarti was conflating the two when she so charmingly suggested I must think my son is “rapey”.

Corrie McKeague and Allan Bryant Jr’s parents said the same, that they trusted their boys. Sadly, it turns out that gentle reminders are often helpful. Not in any way blaming the parents, or indeed the boys themselves, just saying that it’s easy to be confident before the worst happens.

Yes, I don't see the harm in reminding your boys every single time they walk out the door that they behave like gentlemen, with a periodic recap of what that actually means (I do this when I have a captive audience, e.g. the car).

It takes a fair bit of repetition to turn something into a reflex.

All of my friends who have boys have taken this pretty seriously.

@conkergames
When people hear someone has been burgled, they never ask “did the person deserve it?” Or “was it the person’s fault?” The response is always “poor Mr and Mrs Smith. I hope they’re ok, I hope nothing too valuable was taken, I hope they can still feel safe in their house, I hope the burglar is caught and given a proper sentence in court”.

Then in court the jury just listen to the case based on the facts. They’re not given history of the burgled people’s behaviour, to decide whether or not they “provoked” the burglary or whether they were likely to have wanted it.

That’s because there’s no such thing as consensual burglary/mugging. Juries have to ascertain whether the victim wanted it to happen or not, in a way they don’t with burglaries or any other crime.

*@conkergames
When people hear someone has been burgled, they never ask “did the person deserve it?” Or “was it the person’s fault?” The response is always “poor Mr and Mrs Smith. I hope they’re ok, I hope nothing too valuable was taken, I hope they can still feel safe in their house, I hope the burglar is caught and given a proper sentence in court”.

Then in court the jury just listen to the case based on the facts. They’re not given history of the burgled people’s behaviour, to decide whether or not they “provoked” the burglary or whether they were likely to have wanted it.*

Actually, people do fake burglaries in order to claim the insurance money. When the question is asked it's not called 'victim blaming'; it's questioning whether the person is actually a victim at all.

Excuse me, bold fail!

"That’s because there’s no such thing as consensual burglary/mugging. Juries have to ascertain whether the victim wanted it to happen or not, in a way they don’t with burglaries or any other crime."

The definition of mugging is taking an object or money by force. The opposite is voluntary cession of the object/money as a gift. Which certainly does exist. I might choose to give a tenner to someone (e.g. a beggar) or I might be mugged and have my tenner taken off me as I walk through town late at night. What has to be established is whether a) the transferral of tenner from me to other person actually happened b) whether it was voluntary.

Same with sex, really. No, you can't have a non-consensual mugging, but then you can't have non-consensual rape either. Rape and mugging is what it's called when it's not consensual.

Correction: No, you can't have a consensual mugging, but then you can't have consensual rape either. Rape and mugging is what it's called when it's non-consensual.

Read this. Tell me that a these rapists are monsters rather than numerous men who are the product of a fucked up, misogynist society. There is no way they all think that they're rapists and also no way that they understand the boundaries of consent.

news.vice.com/article/online-dating-rape-reports-rise-450-percent-in-five-years

@Putyourdamnshoeson

"There is no way they all think that they're rapists"

What are you basing this on?

"Tell me that a these rapists are monsters rather than numerous men who are the product of a fucked up, misogynist society."

OK. The rapists are monsters and society is neither fucked up nor misogynist.

Misogynist is a word that's become overused to the point of redundancy.

Does that help?

No. That doesn't help because it's utter bollocks.

Society is neither fucked up nor misogynistic

Which society please? Because if you’re referring to the one we live in, you are very much mistaken.

This society blames women when they are raped or murdered by a man, it punishes women with judgement when they become single parents or seek a safe, medical termination, it holds women to a higher moral standard than it does men, and judges us for less.

It’s also become common place to attack the poor, those who are disabled, immigrants and anyone who isn’t “the same”.

So tell me again how society isn’t fucked up and misogynistic?

@YeTalkShiteHen

You've proven you have an apt username. No need to keep going, hen.

Cool debating technique there, drastard. You and Slarti should get together...

Ah patronising and insulting.

A sure sign that you’ve got fuck all else to say

Cheers Bertrand

I've lots to say @shite but it's all straight over your head. Obtuse or dim?

Do you think there can be any debate on this board @Bertrand? It's just a few posters who think that whatever they type instantly becomes fact and when you question them they tell you to "research it".

It isn’t victim blaming it is common sense. Likewise you wouldn’t rock up dressed for a night out in the UK in somewhere like Afghanistan. You have to take precautions as some people are utterly vile.
You can teach this is schools all you like but lots of people don’t go to school.
I totally agree you never blame the victim for rape but these arguments are getting silly.

You cannot control for the behaviour of others.

Obtuse or dim?

See my above point. You have no points at all, you want to argue, belittle and dominate anyone who disagrees.

I’m not in the slightest bit interested engaging in an argument with someone who is getting some kind of perverse kick out of being deliberately goady and provocative.

You may well get satisfaction from it, but I’m not in the habit of indulging people like you.

So I’ll bid you good day.

"Men" don't rape, rapists rape.

It is a ridiculous abstract concept to discuss the woes of rapists existing or who we are "blaming" in the context of staying safe on a night out, I take the view that we're better off being spuriously accused of victim blaming than neglecting to repeat advice on how to stay safe.

This society blames women when they are raped or murdered by a man

No it doesn't. We put rapists and murderers in prison. Both are viewed as particularly serious crimes and rapists are stigmatized for life, as they should be.

That's the reality, as opposed to the fantasy world where we all clap them on the back and buy them a pint because of misogyny/internalized misogyny.

That's the reality, as opposed to the fantasy world where we all clap them on the back and buy them a pint because of misogyny/internalized misogyny.

Read any story where a man has murdered his wife, and there’s something about how she “drove” him to it, money, cheating, whatever, but I guarantee it’s there. Ditto for rape trials, why is her sexual history relevant?

When my friend was murdered she was blamed for being chaotic and living a “haphazard” lifestyle, she was described as “flighty and spontaneous” all used to drag her name through the mud.

Do you think she deserved to be raped, tortured, decapitated and then dismembered? Because the press seemed to think she was to blame.

yetalk

I think obtuse and dim probably realates more to people who have never seen the side of society which you are referring to and refuse to believe it exists

That really is obtuse!!

"Read any story where a man has murdered his wife, and there’s something about how she “drove” him to it, money, cheating, whatever, but I guarantee it’s there."

It seems you like to guarantee a lot of things hen but that doesn't mean you're right.

I googled "husband murders wife" and most of the stories are about the man in Colarado who killed his wife and daughters. The papers haven't tried to blame the wife.

I'm not saying you might be right about the odd case but claiming it is in "any story" is completely false.

The world you think exists really doesn't.

Again, many on this board are arguing about a straw man. A rape victim’s sexual history can only be brought into court in exceptional circumstances, and the defence has to apply to do so. In only 8% of cases was it a factor in recent trials.

You cannot rule it out entirely as sometimes it goes to the facts of a case.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2017/dec/14/sexual-history-sometimes-revealed-rape-cases-moj