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To think Chandler and Monica have their priorities wrong in Friends?

141 replies

Potterfriends · 19/08/2018 12:09

I love them together, but they blow every penny of Chandler’s savings on the wedding, and a few episodes later Chandler isn’t being paid and they have to borrow thousands from Joey. It’s unreasonably annoyed me. Why would you spend your entire safety net on one day?! I know I'm over invested.

OP posts:
ladycarlotta · 19/08/2018 13:45

Which parts are homophobic? I'm not being funny I genuinely can't remember!

I think it had a kind of low-level culture of homophobia. Definitely the use of 'lesbian' as a punchline - a lot of the time with the lesbian ex-wife there isn't actually a joke, people just chortle at the word/concept. All the little digs at people mistaking that Chandler is gay, and Phoebe's gay ice dancer, and Chandler being so freaked out and disgusted by his trans dad (altho ovvo they had other issues too). I don't think that sort of casual and unconsidered othering would go unnoticed nowadays, but then nor would Joey's lascivious 'how you doin'?' schtick.

Total cop-out to say it was a different time, but I guess it was. I really enjoyed Friends (still do), but I know that the homophobic giggling I saw in it really affected the way I thought about myself, as a young girl who fancied girls back in the 90s. It made me feel kind of excluded and freakish, like I would never quite be accepted, I would always have to expect to be a subject of slight ridicule. I survived it, obviously, but I don't think the 90s were brilliantly good at figuring that stuff out. It's not just a Friends thing.

browneyes77 · 19/08/2018 13:46

I will happily rewatch episodes of Friends, it was a great show.

I’ve never understood all this dissecting of it 20 years later to see which bits seemed homophonic or sexist whatever. It’s a show from the 90’s and nobody took any issue with these things back then. Maybe because nobody got offended at every little thing back then, in the way they do now.

Have to say Phoebe was always the character that annoyed me the most! I liked her but always thought she came across as quite rude! Grin

flowerythorns · 19/08/2018 13:51

I think it's nice to watch and see some of the stuff that just wouldn't happen now we have smartphones

Ross and his pager for Ben's birth

Carol, Phoebe and Ross getting trapped in the Janitors closet.

Phoebe calling Emily's house when Rachel is getting on a plane...

Loads of things integral to the episode due to misunderstandings and being non contactable.

VickyEadie · 19/08/2018 13:59

I've watched Friends many, many times and can't agree that it's 'homophobic'.

Here's the thing: in real life, blokes like Chandler, Joey and Ross would conceivably be somewhat paranoid about people thinking they were gay. A sitcom in which the main characters had no flaws, etc = no real opportunities for comedy.

abacucat · 19/08/2018 14:03

Homophobia was common then on TV shows. You may not have noticed it at the time, including on Friends, but plenty of us did.

abacucat · 19/08/2018 14:04

Actually in the same way I notice anti lesbian stuff on MN, although many here deny it.

MintTulips · 19/08/2018 14:07

Kate, just because you think something and write it down in all caps doesn't mean it's true.

Friends is very very dated when it comes to attitudes towards homosexuality, that is true.

MintTulips · 19/08/2018 14:10

I’ve never understood all this dissecting of it 20 years later to see which bits seemed homophonic or sexist whatever. It’s a show from the 90’s and nobody took any issue with these things back then.

With all due respect, why? We dissect sexism in Shakespeare now, with a 2018 lens. How is it any different?

It's a useful yardstick to measure social change with.

butterflyrabbit · 19/08/2018 14:11

you don't need to 'dissect' it to notice it, it's just there, at the surface. I'm not personally offended by it but it does stick out to me as jarring.
I rewatched an episode of This Life which I always thought was progressive and right-on, and egg and milly say some really casually homophobic stuff, like 'isn't he a pouf?' when talking about Warren

ReggaetonLente · 19/08/2018 14:13

katie the only person getting het up is you!

There’s an episode I watched recently where they go to watch Ross speak about palaeontology at a conference in Barbados and Joey consistently laughs every time Ross says ‘homo’, as in homo erectus. I get that that it’s meant to show Joey’s immaturity, but I did think to myself there’s no way they’d write that into a show nowadays.

Agree with PP, you can like something but still see it’s flaws. I love Friends but it’s interesting to notice how attitudes have changed in a relatively short time.

abacucat · 19/08/2018 14:17

And some people certainly did notice the homophobia then. Homophobia is not - every little thing.

Hangingaroundtheportal · 19/08/2018 14:18

Some of the lesbian stuff wasn't homophobic though, it was more taking the piss out of Ross over his hangups about his ex being a lesbian.

Like when Ross commented that they had a lot of books about 'being a lesbian' and Carol said 'yeah you have to take a course otherwise they don't let you do it'.

I do think Ross was treated quite badly by Carol. She had already started her affair with Susan whilst still with Ross hadn't she, because Ross talked about the threesome they had (unless that wasn't Susan?). And then Carol just basically used Ross's sperm to get pregnant and have a baby with Carol. She waited until she was pregnant to tell Ross she was a lesbian and leaving didn't she?

youarenotkiddingme · 19/08/2018 14:19

I didn't think there was homophobia either.

There was a long standing side story about Ross ex wife Carol. I thought it was quite before it's time in that respect?

Hangingaroundtheportal · 19/08/2018 14:25

There’s an episode I watched recently where they go to watch Ross speak about palaeontology at a conference in Barbados and Joey consistently laughs every time Ross says ‘homo’, as in homo erectus. I get that that it’s meant to show Joey’s immaturity, but I did think to myself there’s no way they’d write that into a show nowadays.

There is another bit where Joey thinks that Homo Sapiens means gay and then Ross says 'Joey, Homo sapiens are people' and Joey says 'hey I'm not judging'.

youarenotkiddingme · 19/08/2018 14:26

Sorry didn't refresh before posting.

Those explanations about homophobia are quite revealing. I guess anything can be dependent on own life experiences and feelings.

My fave Ross episode is the leather pants.

Hangingaroundtheportal · 19/08/2018 14:27

Little Britain really wasn't that long ago and I don't think they would get away with most of that now.

MintTulips · 19/08/2018 14:29

Matt Lucas said similar very recently Hanging.

Everything is a product of it's age and television is very very interesting to look back on in this regard. Friends isn't bad or negative in hindsight, it's simply old.

MorningsEleven · 19/08/2018 14:30

The one who's not David Walliams has openly said it wouldn't and that he's ashamed. There's quite some beef between the two of them I think.

PixieMiss · 19/08/2018 14:31

Saying Friends is old makes me feel positively ancient SadGrin

MorningsEleven · 19/08/2018 14:31

Oh sorry, x posted and found out Matt Lucas' name.

butterflyrabbit · 19/08/2018 14:33

Wasn't that long ago that it was constantly repeated on E4. I'm rewatching now on Netflix but I hadn't realised I already know most of the lines by heart! More the earlier stuff though.

Hated the monkey storylines, ugly naked guy, Ben on the bus, and how ridiculous the ivf stuff was (bears no resemblance to reality!!)

ArmySal · 19/08/2018 14:41

Funny/disgusting anecdote about Rachel's meat trifle Grin

POPholditdown · 19/08/2018 14:45

There’s an episode I watched recently where they go to watch Ross speak about palaeontology at a conference in Barbados and Joey consistently laughs every time Ross says ‘homo’, as in homo erectus. I get that that it’s meant to show Joey’s immaturity, but I did think to myself there’s no way they’d write that into a show nowadays.

There’s a scene in Big Bang where Raj says something like ‘I’m the new homo’, but meaning something else and it’s meant to be a funny scene. He’s also the ‘Chandler’ generally as there’s an underlying indication that he could be gay. I never see anyone up in arms about that show even though it’s more current.

Brooklyn 99 also has a gay character, I think this is meant to be funny as he’s not a ‘typical’ gay person.

All of these jokes taken from older shows are still written in today, but for some reason people like to wait until decades later to be offended!

ReggaetonLente · 19/08/2018 14:50

I’m not up in arms. I’m not offended. I haven’t read any posts on here that indicate anyone is, it’s all been very measured, apart from one poster.

We’re just discussing things we’ve noticed.

dayswithaY · 19/08/2018 15:08

Oysterbabe I did exactly the same list in my head as you with the same outcome as you except:-

Rachel and Joshua - met when she was his personal shopper at Bloomingdale but he was newly divorced and it was too soon - otherwise he was perfect for her.

Joey and Kate the actress who was in a play with him but left to be in a soap in L.A. after one perfect night together, he really loved her.

As you can tell I've barely watched Friends at all Blush