Is it a right to have Kids you can’t afford!?!

[KN2212]

I am totally fed up of listening to people complain about how broke they are after having kids. Babies and childcare are cripplingly expensive but that’s pretty much common knowledge, right?

I fell out with a long term friend of mine about a year ago. Since the birth of her DD all she did was complain about the situation she’d orchestrated.
Her and her (now ex) partner had no home of their own, low income, high debt and no savings when they decided to go ahead and have a child (though granted had been together for 7 years). The poor boyfriend busted his butt working 13 hour shifts 6 days a week in a call centre whilst they all lived in one cramped room at her parents and she complained he wasn’t doing enough. Due to her crippling shopping debts and inability to hold a job they were never going to make enough to live and knew that pre getting pregnant.

(Other friends are in similar situations, complaining about how they ‘can’t afford to go back to work’ because of childcare costs but equally can’t afford to live if they don’t go back to work!!! Come on and take some responsibility you knew this was going to be your situation.)

Whilst she was complaining over coffee one day about how the benefit system wasn’t giving her enough free money I called her out on her obvious poor planning and asked why she didn’t wait and save pre child. She got very defensive and said that they were never going to be able to afford a child due to their financial situation so why bother waiting?

It just got me thinking really hard, since when did having children become a right? It seemed so clear to her that she deserved to have a child despite not being able to afford one and that the government should now support her because she deserved to have her daughter.
Am I wrong in thinking that having children you can’t support is completely irresponsible and shitty and entitled?

I know a lot of women who want kids but are having to wait and plan and save and do it ‘the right way’ it seems unfair to them. When women like my ex friend do exactly what they want without planning and then hold the government over a barrel saying that their kids don’t have food and clothes. It just sucks like the children shouldn’t have to suffer but the tax payer shouldn’t have to pay for your unfair choices.

To clarify I have empathy for unplanned pregnancy’s no contraception is 100% but that’s not the kind of situation I’m talking about here. I’m talking about planned pregnancies.

I'm a Tory and I have quite a lot of empathy for employed people on low wages who have 1 or 2 children. I'm happy to help them out, although I don't understand why anyone would drop themselves in such a stressful position.

I have very little patience for anyone, wealthy or poor, who has 3+ children, just take a moment to survey the state of the planet please.

Can someone answer my point? Who is going to pay for an ageing population if only the middle classes get to have children?

Yes, let's just draw this Ponzi scheme out to its logical conclusion!

I don’t think it’s wilful ignorance not to research something that is realistically 9 months plus up to a year after getting pregnant.

Seriously? You didn't know how much childcare would cost before having a baby? I find that pretty reckless to be honest.

OP’s post(if anyone remembers) was about a friend who had a baby with nowhere to live (parents box room) a very low salary (from dp who is working his bollocks off) and 35 grand of debt due to buying handbags and shoes.
Sorry if I sound unsympathetic but YES IT IS TOTALLY UR to have children if you you can’t support them!!!

@frosty

That wasn't the only example the OP gave. She talked about friends who complain about childcare costs - I'm sorry, but most people who have children struggle with childcare costs - you shouldn't need to have a spare grand a month to be able to have a children. Childcare should be provided by the government.

Most of what the government pays in welfare is on pensions. Where do you think the government gets money from? Its from tax paying working adults. If only middle classes get to have kids (because if you're earning under average wage, you will at least need state help for childcare costs) then there will be no where near enough tax paying adults to fund pensions, heath and social care for a majority elderly population. They take far far more resources than benefits.

Demographers say there needs to be a fertility rate of 2.2 children per woman to avert crisis.

That being said, I agree its irresponsible to have multiple children when you can't afford it. I'm not having more than one, unless my situation changes drastically.

And it is in no way, shape or form a RIGHT to have children!

What’s this “middle class” thing? Do you really assume it’s only the middle classes who earn enough to support their families?!

@lamagrey

Considering full time nursery is a grand a month, yes.

OP talked about people who moan about childcare costs too. How many people in this country can actually afford to pay full childcare costs and bring home a decent wage after that with no government help at all?

Demographers say there needs to be a fertility rate of 2.2 children per woman to avert crisis.

Would you like to know what the scientists are saying? That we're several billion past our carrying capacity and totally fucked.

If you can afford £1000 a month to put your child into nursery full time, fine.
If you don’t have that kind of money then surely you need to look at your income and decide if one of you needs to stay at home while the kids are pre school age.
Failing that, there are all sorts of state funded options.
Surely this was a little tongue in cheek?

@aint

there are all sorts of state funded options

Yes there are some, but this is what people here are opposing

We looked at our income - my earnings - and decided I would stay at home with the kids.

Then things went tits up. I couldn't afford childcare.

What's the solution?

You haven’t had occasion to use a plumber recently, then beiber?!
Or a builder

Where there’s muck there’s brass, as my granny used to say

I earn 1212.22 per month working full time.

So I am undeserving poor and my children are not worthy.

Aren’t we having a moral dilemma here?
Many hard working families have kids and all is fine, then something changes, illness, death, redundancy for eg and they find themselves needing some help financially. Help should be there.
The other side of the coin is those who expect the tax payers to fund their ill thought out life choices

@Aintnothingbutaheartache

Yes but some people seem to class being in a low paid job is an ill thought out life choice.

Where did you get that from *scrumple’?

And they seem to think that the only reason people in low paid jobs have children is either for the tax credits or so that the children of those in low paid jobs can be street sweepers and bum wipers in the future.

"And it is in no way, shape or form a RIGHT to have children!"

IANAL, but I'm going to stick my neck out and say you're wrong from a legal perspective.

Where did I get it from? From the "if you can't afford £1000 a month childcare you shouldn't have children" that's where.

Doing a low paid job is not an ill thought out life choice!
Having children that you cannot afford to raise is.

Your posts are actually fairly disturbing, scrumple 🤔
You’ve got some issues going on there...

scrumplepaper I absolutely DID NOT say that

Iamgreyhound that is an absolute slur on me and you have no right to be saying that to me.

If you can afford £1000 a month to put your child into nursery full time, fine.
If you don’t have that kind of money then surely you need to look at your income and decide if one of you needs to stay at home while the kids are pre school age.
Failing that, there are all sorts of state funded options.
Surely this was a little tongue in cheek?

That's what you said. We looked at our joint income and decided I would stay at home. Then we split and I couldn't afford £1000 a month. What would you suggest I do?