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AIBU?

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Original poster

Is it a right to have Kids you can’t afford!?!

451 replies

KN2212 · 18/08/2018 22:41

I am totally fed up of listening to people complain about how broke they are after having kids. Babies and childcare are cripplingly expensive but that’s pretty much common knowledge, right?

I fell out with a long term friend of mine about a year ago. Since the birth of her DD all she did was complain about the situation she’d orchestrated.
Her and her (now ex) partner had no home of their own, low income, high debt and no savings when they decided to go ahead and have a child (though granted had been together for 7 years). The poor boyfriend busted his butt working 13 hour shifts 6 days a week in a call centre whilst they all lived in one cramped room at her parents and she complained he wasn’t doing enough. Due to her crippling shopping debts and inability to hold a job they were never going to make enough to live and knew that pre getting pregnant.

(Other friends are in similar situations, complaining about how they ‘can’t afford to go back to work’ because of childcare costs but equally can’t afford to live if they don’t go back to work!!! Come on and take some responsibility you knew this was going to be your situation.)

Whilst she was complaining over coffee one day about how the benefit system wasn’t giving her enough free money I called her out on her obvious poor planning and asked why she didn’t wait and save pre child. She got very defensive and said that they were never going to be able to afford a child due to their financial situation so why bother waiting?

It just got me thinking really hard, since when did having children become a right? It seemed so clear to her that she deserved to have a child despite not being able to afford one and that the government should now support her because she deserved to have her daughter.
Am I wrong in thinking that having children you can’t support is completely irresponsible and shitty and entitled?

I know a lot of women who want kids but are having to wait and plan and save and do it ‘the right way’ it seems unfair to them. When women like my ex friend do exactly what they want without planning and then hold the government over a barrel saying that their kids don’t have food and clothes. It just sucks like the children shouldn’t have to suffer but the tax payer shouldn’t have to pay for your unfair choices.

To clarify I have empathy for unplanned pregnancy’s no contraception is 100% but that’s not the kind of situation I’m talking about here. I’m talking about planned pregnancies.

OP posts:
Frosty6611 · 20/08/2018 18:46

@scrumple the OP isn’t talking about people whose circumstances changed once they’d HAD a child. It’s only directed at the ones whose circumstances were already really difficult and they still planned kids. Read the thread FFS

Frazzledstar1 · 20/08/2018 18:47

I think it’s tricky because you might be doing financially well Pre kid and think you can afford, but until you’ve had them its hard to know how much you will spend on milk, nappies, clothes, food etc etc etc and as for the cost of childcare - we’ll let’s say we thought we had plenty of spare money for this but I didn’t actually ring around and ask for quotes from nurseries/childminders pre conception. So was not prepared in that sense.

scrumplepaper · 20/08/2018 18:50

But what's the difference? I'm still viewed as feckless scrounger - and where do you draw the line? The "rape" clause for eg?

It's a shockingly ill-thought out position to say that only the wealthy can have children.

How and who would be responsible for enforcement? Shag police to come around and inject the feckless poor (women of course) with contraceptives?

user838383 · 20/08/2018 18:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 20/08/2018 18:51

Stop your nonsense Hmm

scrumplepaper · 20/08/2018 18:53

Who decides what level is "affordability". What if someone meets the criteria and then gets made redundant during pregnancy? Would the woman be forced to have an abortion?

beibermylove · 20/08/2018 18:53

I understand (although I don't agree) people's opposition to reliance on benefits. But I just can't understand the opposition help with childcare. If there was free universal childcare than women wouldn't need to stop working/ working part time for four years - (and often therefore end up claiming tax credits). Why on earth should you have to be able to spare a grand a month - or save up 40k in childcare costs - to be able to afford a child?! How many people can do that??

scrumplepaper · 20/08/2018 18:54

What about if a couple decide to have a baby and as a couple they meet the affordability test, but they then split - who should be assessed as meeting that test? Suppose the woman is the lower earner, works part time as they have a child already, would the children be taken off her and sent to live with the man because he met the affordability criteria?

scrumplepaper · 20/08/2018 18:54

What about if a couple decide to have a baby and as a couple they meet the affordability test, but they then split - who should be assessed as meeting that test? Suppose the woman is the lower earner, works part time as they have a child already, would the children be taken off her and sent to live with the man because he met the affordability criteria?

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 20/08/2018 18:55

scrumple you’re making yourself sound stunningly stupid here Confused
Are you for real?

scrumplepaper · 20/08/2018 18:56

I am following the OP's logic through.

I don't think it's me that is sounding stupid.

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 20/08/2018 18:59

You mentioned forced abortion.
Absolutely stunning.

scrumplepaper · 20/08/2018 19:01

Well, that's the logical conclusion of "only those deemed rich enough by the state can have children".

Or have you another solution to the OP's ridiculous suggestion?

Figgygal · 20/08/2018 19:07

Winnie wtf are you on about?

No having children is not a right it's an evolutionary biological urge and one I understand is overpowering at times for some but planning children with no means to support them or care for their quality of life is reprehensible imo

beibermylove · 20/08/2018 19:12

Can someone answer my point? Who is going to pay for an ageing population if only the middle classes get to have children?

Frosty6611 · 20/08/2018 19:13

@beiber the government as they would be saving a shit load of money on paying out benefits

tcc81 · 20/08/2018 19:17

Having children should not be only for the wealthy. I can’t bear it when I read ‘you shouldn’t have kids if you can’t afford them’. I don’t object to my taxes being spent on things that don’t impact or benefit me. When did we become a society that is so individualistic we only think of what benefits us? I believe childcare should be subsidised for working parents on a low income so they can work and guess what pay taxes and contribute to society. For those unable to work I’m glad I live in a country where they are given benefits. Let’s show some compassion rather than being so judgemental.

ImNotAsGreenasImCabbageLooking · 20/08/2018 19:19

Some of these replies are absolutely ridiculous!

The Op has not suggested that laws be passed to prevent people having children, forced sterilization or abortion or taking children away from their parents ffs. The apparently horrendous suggestion she and others are making is that people, individuals and couples, give some thought to how they will provide for themselves and their dc before they actually have them.

Apparently for some on MN though, any suggestion of personal responsibility is completely unacceptable and people should just go ahead and have dc whenever the urge takes them.

Is it really so wrong to suggest for example that a couple in their early/mid 20s, at the beginning of their working lives, perhaps hold off on having dc for a few years while they concentrate on increasing their earning potential, ensuring they have somewhere suitable to live, perhaps saving what they can for the drop in income maternity leave may bring?

Or that the couple with 2 dc in a small house on a household income of 26k might consider not having another 2 dc and pushing themselves into poverty?

There are times on MN you could be forgiven for thinking the UK is a third world country, that half the population haven't had access to education and birth control and that "working class" equals barely literate and can't be expected to do anything for themselves. It's bollox!

Thecrabbypatty · 20/08/2018 19:20

It's not about grinding the population to a standstill biebermylove and its not about people who work but don't earn as much not having children. It's about people in financial crisis choosing to add to the burden on their household income, knowing they can't afford what they already have, and then having more with no means to provide even basic necessaries for a new baby and growing child. OP was referring specifically to not being able to afford things like food and nappies. We are not talking about people who struggle a bit each month and stretch themselves tight to have children. We are talking about people who have no intention of working to support their children.

Frosty6611 · 20/08/2018 19:21

Are those opposing the OP’s opinion really suggestion that it’s completely fine to plan a baby when crippled in debt, living in a small room in your parents house and unable to afford any of the basic things without getting into more and more debt?! Erm ok then.....

JustMeHere1 · 20/08/2018 19:22

Plenty of children born in places such as Africa where they don't even have clean water.
If you can't feed, water and clothe your children then yes you shouldn't have them.
Most other things - butt out.

BitchQueen90 · 20/08/2018 19:23

The point is though it is not achievable for everyone to increase their earning potential! Not everybody is the academic type that can go to university and do degrees.

The people who work as carers, in retail, litter picking. Do they not deserve to have children because they're on a crap wage and will likely have to claim a bit of working tax credit? They work as hard as everyone else.

ImNotAsGreenasImCabbageLooking · 20/08/2018 19:26

Yes Frosty apparently they are. Because they'll be needed for pensions and erm, doing the menial jobs the "rich" don't want their dc doing Hmm. That's why people who can't afford their dc actually have them dontcha know...

Oakmaiden · 20/08/2018 19:27

Walkingdeadfangirl
If you cant afford children, dont have them. End of. YANBU
Its so selfish of people to expect others to pay for their children.

Economically speaking, we pay for other people's children (or those who need it) but then when we are old other people's children pay for us (or those of us who need it). It all works out in the end. Pretty much

Flowersandbirds · 20/08/2018 19:31

Spot on @BitchQueen90 I’m so bored of the “I’ve worked really hard” to be this wealthy. You think care workers or cleaners etc don’t work just as hard as those at a high earning desk job. Really? So those struggling to make ends meet on low wages jobs shouldn’t have kids and those fortunate enough to be middle class should? Give me strength.

And as for the costs. I had no idea how crippling childcare would be before i had kids. I don’t think it’s wilful ignorance not to research something that is realistically 9 months plus up to a year after getting pregnant.